Midi-keyboard advice

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iceaway

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Hello!

I'm thinking about getting a midi-keyboard. Both for learning how to play the keys better and for entering music easily into the computer.
So I've come across a few m-audio products that seems interesting.

First the MK499C
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MK449C-focus.html

the keystation 61es
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_...n61es-main.html

and finally the MK361
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_gb/MK361-main.html

Does anyone have any experience with these, or have any other recommendations as to which keyboards I could check out?
 
:D Yo Iceman:

I just got the ES61--quite a keyboard--great patches. Terrible manual.

I got the board for the new patches as my DX-7 was 20 years old.

I don't think I'll ever learn how to use the sequencer unless I go to school for it. I didn't get the keyboard for the sequencer--just the new sounds.

It is an amazing board.

I'm sure you would enjoy it.

Green Hornet :cool: :D :confused: :D
 
Yo :D

I'm really new to this stuff so I'm sorry if this is a really stupid question, but what does patches and sequencer mean?

After looking into it some more and testing the 61es at a musicstore today, I'm really leaning towards it. It felt pretty good with those semi-weighted keys, compared to the other "normal" keyboards they had.
 
Well, I'm a piano player so, a couple of points:
1.) I wouldn't get anything with less than 88 keys - Why have the limitation of less?
2.) I use a Fatar Studio 90, which is a midi controller. It has no internal sounds. I run that thru a Roland JV 2080 sound module with expansion boards.
The out-put of that goes to the input of my AD/DA converters. What I end up with going into the computer is a wave file, rather than a midi representation.
So that might be an avenue you want to explore. (Controller -> Sound Module)
3.) If sequencing is something you want to explore, then you'll need something more than a basic midi controller.
4.) Have you looked at the Korg Karma? I don't know a whole lot about it (I know its not 88 keys) and it may be a little too complicated for your first keyboard, but if you have the patience to learn it, its an amazing product. I don't own one, but I have a friend that does, and I've played around with it a few times.
 
Maybe I should make myself a little clearer on what it is that I need :)
I already play the bass, so this keyboard is not going to be a new instrument of mine. It will simply aid me in composing songs and entering them into music programs on the computer. I'm not looking to spend a great deal of money here, and want something that works out of the box. I'm looking to spend around $250. The karma seemed to be a whole lot more expensive.
 
Iceaway-

First of all, you understand that none of the keyboards you're considering produce their own sounds, right? They are all keyboard controllers, not synths. In order to use them you will need to connect them to either a MIDI sound module, another MIDI keyboard synth or a computer that has MIDI capabilities and a MIDI sound card or soft-synths (software synthesizers).

Of the three, the MK449C has the best controls, but I would opt for at least 61 keys. What about the Radium 61? Of course, none of these gives anything approximating a piano feel. For that you would want (staying with M-Audio) the Keystation 88 Pro.

Patches are, and the exact terminology varies with the manufacturer, generally a complete sound produced by a synth. A patch usually includes all the settings to produce a sound on a given synth. In simple terms, when you push the buttons on a synth and get the "Grand Piano" or "Violin" or whatever sound, THAT'S a patch.

Sequencers allow you to record a series of events and play them back. The earliest sequencers triggered analog synths with different voltages producing different tones. Now sequencers use MIDI. Most sequencers combine the ability to play MIDI information with digital audio recording ala Cubase, SONAR, Nuendo, PowerTracks, etc.

Michaels mention of the KARMA is a good suggestion, but it's a very deep instrument. I'm not sure it's ideal for a beginner. It also doesn't have the best keyboard in the world, but it can do some amazing things and it's one of those "If you were stranded on a desert island and could have only one keyboard..." kind of instruments to me.

Ted
 
Thank you for the detailed description tedluk! I know that they can't produce any sounds of their own, and I don't plan on using any such feature anyway. I just want to put stuff on the computer with it.

$250 is really as far as I can go, so the keystation 88 is way off, and unfortunately the radium 61 is a bit too expensive as well. So it's really between the MK449C and the 61ES, and out of those two I think the 61ES felt best to play.

Thanks everyone for the advice and tips, it is very much appreciated for a newcomer in this jungle :)
 
I vote for the . . .

. . . m-audio keystation 61es. I've used mine since August and as a rank newbie I love it. Run it to my PC via my USB 2.0 card and use n-track software. I opted for the wall wart so the power would not come through my PC. I find it very enjoyable, easy to use and just a very nice piece of equipment, esspecially nice considering it's very reasonale price. :)
 
The Radium 61 is $199.00, I believe. But, I'm not sure why you're asking for advice since it sounds as if you have already made up your mind. What I don't like about the 61ES is that it has a very limited amount of controllers on it and you're going to find them very handy to have later on.

What kind of "stuff" are you using a keyboard to put on your computer without having a synth of some kind? Keyboard "feel" is only one part of the equation. Without a decent soundset it won't matter if the keyboard plays well, it will still sound bad.

Ted
 
tedluk said:
The Radium 61 is $199.00, I believe. But, I'm not sure why you're asking for advice since it sounds as if you have already made up your mind. What I don't like about the 61ES is that it has a very limited amount of controllers on it and you're going to find them very handy to have later on.

What kind of "stuff" are you using a keyboard to put on your computer without having a synth of some kind? Keyboard "feel" is only one part of the equation. Without a decent soundset it won't matter if the keyboard plays well, it will still sound bad.

Ted
Click to expand...

I live in Sweden, so the prices are a bit different here, and unfortunately the radium 61 is too expensive :(
I'm sorry if it seems like I've already made up my mind, I do check out all the tips I get from you guys.
I heard that it's possible to get another external unit with about the same controllers afterwards, is that true?

Not quite sure yet exactly what 'stuff' will be. Probably some drums and some composing.
Isn't it the soundcard rather than the keyboard that decides if it will sound good? (for midi-keyboards that is).
 
A MIDI enabled soundcard is one way to produce MIDI sounds, but, most of the time, not a very good one. Most of the MIDI synths included on soundcards are of pretty poor quality.

What software are you using on your computer? Most of the recording programs on the market support some kind of plug-ins, DXi or VSTi.

One thing should be made clearer- earlier in this thread Green Hornet talked about his ES61 having great patches but a terrible manual. I believe he was talking about a Yamaha Motif ES61, not the M-Audio 61 ES. Two completely different keyboards.

Ted
 
tedluk said:
A MIDI enabled soundcard is one way to produce MIDI sounds, but, most of the time, not a very good one. Most of the MIDI synths included on soundcards are of pretty poor quality.

What software are you using on your computer? Most of the recording programs on the market support some kind of plug-ins, DXi or VSTi.

One thing should be made clearer- earlier in this thread Green Hornet talked about his ES61 having great patches but a terrible manual. I believe he was talking about a Yamaha Motif ES61, not the M-Audio 61 ES. Two completely different keyboards.

Ted
Click to expand...

I have an audigy2 soundcard, no idea if the midi on it is good or not.
I don't know which software I'll be using. Maybe it's time to start researching that too :) Cubase is a name that comes to mind.

Thanks for clearing that up!
 
I know that there are many people using Cubase, but I've always been a Cakewalk devotee. From what I gather, people often seem frustrated with Steinberg's customer service.

For your more basic needs, look at Cakewalk Home Studio. Reasonably priced, and it offers an upgrade path to SONAR if you decide you want to expand in the future.

Before you purchase anything, I'd encourage you to check out demos of both of these as well as some of the other programs out there like PowerTracks from PGP (beat you to it Manning! ;) ) and NTracks and Tracktion. There really are a number of options right now and most are really powerful.

Ted
 
Tedluk,
You upgraded to Sonar 4 yet? I've been thinking of upgrading, but I've been waiting to try SX3 first. I've always been a Logic, Cakewalk, Steinberg fan (In that order). And being where Emagic gave us PC users the big boot in the arse, I'm thinking Sonar 4 is the way to go (I'll be doing a lot of multimedia work with whatever I get, I do a lot of scoring for independents, and it'll be a cold day in hell before I buy a Mac just for Logic, though I still love it). Does SX3 have good multimedia support.
 
Atterion-

Yes! I made the jump last week. I took advantage of their bundle upgrade offer with Project 5 and Kinetic.

I have installed it, but really haven't had a chance to explore it at all yet. I'm not expecting a dramatic difference. Most of the improvements seem to be in the realm of work-flow enhancements. Still, I've been a happy user of their products for a long time (dating back to DOS days!). I remember when they were just about the only vendor making sequencers for the PC platform. My, how things change!

I'm a hobbyist, not a pro. Though I'm moving into a new home in a couple of months and I'm hoping to make a more proper studio and, who knows, maybe I'll finally get some music done or record some people. :)

If there's anyone in the Inland Empire area of Socal who wants to help me put my studio to good use, let me know! ;)

Ted
 
Good luck with the move bud. Hope you can get something going.
 
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