mics for live vs recording

[resowv]

Forgive me for not posting this in the newbies forum if that's where this question belongs. I have searched this site to no avail looking for an answer to my question, so here goes:

What makes a mic more suitable for studio vs live sound applications? Specifically, I am looking for a small-diaphragm condensor mic that I can use both for live work and home recording. This mic will be used for instrument miking, - dobro, guitar, and mandolin.

I'm looking at the Marshall MXL-603S, Octava mc012, and AKG C1000S. The AKG is billed as being both a studio and live mic, whereas the Marshall and Octava seem to be marketed mainly for studio work. However, the AKG costs twice as much as the others, and, accoding to some posts I have read, may not be worth it.

What would happen if I used the Marshall or Octava for live sound?

 

[Treeline]

Well, they're different animals. Generally, live music uses a dynamic mic and people tend to think of condensers as for recording. Part of that is that condenser mics tend to be really, really fragile and are quite expensive. Drop one and it's probably become paperweight. So that doesn't mix really will with the rigors of the road or professional gigging.

Condensers are extremely sensitive and tend to be uncontrollable unless you can control the environment around them. That's what happens in a studio. Not true of a stage. They also require power to operate, again traditionally more easily provided in a studio.

Shure makes a couple of dynamic mics that have stood the test of time - the SM57 and the SM58. Many good albums were recorded using either or both of them, so there are uses for a good dynamic mic in the studio. And with prices coming down, more condensers are appearing in live gigs; I'm experimenting with that myself. They are tricky to EQ and can get away from you if something unexpected happens. Dynamics tend to mind their manners.

In the final analysis, there is no substitute for your own ears and familiarity with the options. As you get to "know" a mic, you will find more things it can do well.

 

[Fletcher]

Well, they're different animals. Generally, live music uses a dynamic mic and people tend to think of condensers as for recording. Part of that is that condenser mics tend to be really, really fragile and are quite expensive.

Uhhh, no... that's kinda the 'urban myth' that's been surrounding this stuff for ages... but the fact of the matter is that it just ain't so.

Steve Earle and the Dukes have been touring for years with nothing but CAD condenser mics... FWIW, Neumann came out with the KMS-105 to be used almost exclusively in 'sound reinforcement' applications.

I very often use 'ribbon mics' in live performance applications... on drums even. Last time I was around the Aerosmith show, there were a pair of Royer R-121's on Joe's guitar rig... for that matter on the last Stones tour there were a pair of lg. diaphragm FET condeser mics on Keef's rig [which may or may not be a plus as I thought the show sounded like ass in the audience... it sounded to die for good on the stage and in the hole... but like complete shit out front].

The things to watch out for when using condenser mics live are the characteristics of the stage [is the ceiling low?, etc.] and how loud can you get the stage sound before feedback. Dynamic mics will handle feedback better than condenser or ribbon mics... so if you decide to use condenser or ribbon mics you really need to take care and pay attention when you're ringing out the monitors.

Other than that... it'll work, may even work really well... and who knows... they could even add a depth, tone and dimension to a live performance that wasn't previously available... [or they could open up a can of worms you really didn't want to visit... so be diligent in 'sound check' to insure that they're going to do what you're looking for them to do.

Best of luck with it.

 

[Treeline]

I'll gladly stand corrected Hey - my brain needed a few more wrinkles anyway. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[darnold]

Some things which you say are true, but not entirely.

I use AT4033s and MXL 603s all the time live for certain things. Drum overheads and acoustic guitars are my most common thing for them. They really dont feedback more than a dynamic mic either if they are cardiod. That more depends on the room and hyped frequencies the mic might have, not because its condenser.

But the ultimate thing is they really are generally more expensive and not as durable as dynamics like the SM57 so i wouldnt bring it to a rock show that people are jumping all over stage and swinging their mics around. Even still is usually safe to use them for drum overheads but still watch out. MXL603s are good for this because they arnt very expensive.

danny

 

[Richard Monroe]

I've seen and heard condensers used live with good effect, even great. I've heard AKG C414B-ULS used as a live mic for mandolin and Irish flute and whistle in particular with *excellent* results. The smaller the club, the better it will work, all other things remaining equal. If you're using them for a big gig, I hope the guy on the board knows what the hell he's doing. AKG C2000B and AT4033 (both mid-sized diaphragms, in-between large and small) have been used extensively for live instrument mics, particularly for the applications you're talking about.-Richie

 

[DJL]

What makes a mic more suitable for studio vs live sound applications?

Many sound companies want rugged mic's that adapt well with the elements... plus, sound good. Studio's want mic's that sound good... but can be more fragile because their in a controlled environment.

What would happen if I used the Marshall or Octava for live sound?

It will sound great.

Either one or the other should work great for your live shows. The Marhall MXL603S is a little brighter sounding than the Octava MC-012. I prefer the Marshall MXL603S on things like acoustic instrements and I perfer the Octava MC-012 as a drum overheads.

 

[resowv]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I have ordered a matched stereo set of Marshall 603's from Shreve Audio, about $185 including shipping. In response to Treeline, I've been using an SM57 for live work, but have to run the gain on the sound board all the way up and still have to eat the mike. Even then I have to thrash the instrument to get it to cut the way I need. I borrowed a CAD 95 condenser from someone for awhile and decide that a condenser was the way to go.

 

[Richard Monroe]

There are some higher-end AKG and Shure hand held stage condensers that might be a good compromise for vocals. The other option is to take the mic you've got right now, and run it through a preamp (say DMP3) to boost the gain just a little before it hits the board. In my experience, 2 cheap preamps turned up halfway usually sound better than one cheap preamp turned up all the way.-Richie