Mics for a Songwriter

[antheo]

Hi,

I tried to A/B some mics at the local stores but they never let me A/B all at once so here i am. I am assembling a small home studio in a house we rent so it is not acoustically treated.

I want principally to be able to record my acoustic guitars and Male and Female voices. (I'll record Violin / Sax but not a priority right now although if the same mics could work that would be great).

Music Style ranges from Folk, Pop to Rock.

So far i have:
Monitors: Dynaudio BM6A
Audio Interface: TC Konnekt 48

Budget: up to $1000 but of course the less i spend the better as this is a hobby

What do you think of the following combinations?

CHOICE BUDGET:
- Vocals: Studio Projects B1, $119.99
- Guitars:
Shure SM81, $349.97
OR Studio Projects C4, $360.00
OR anything cheaper like the Shure SM57?
CHOICE MORE HIGH-END: (is it worth it?/will we hear a difference?)
- Vocals: Audio-Technica AT4050, $480.00
- Guitars: ??
CHOICE : MORE PERSONALITY??: (again worth it?)
- Studio Projects TB1, $299.99
- Studio Projects T3, $599.99
- BLUE Bluebird, $299.99
- BLUE Baby Bottle, $499.97
- Audio-Technica AT4047/SV, $549.97

I don't think that would fit into my budget but would you recommend to add a better pre-amp? What about the Studio Projects tube pre-amp?

Thanks in advance for your feedback

 

[tdukex]

Hi,

I tried to A/B some mics at the local stores but they never let me A/B all at once so here i am. I am assembling a small home studio in a house we rent so it is not acoustically treated.

I want principally to be able to record my acoustic guitars and Male and Female voices. (I'll record Violin / Sax but not a priority right now although if the same mics could work that would be great).

Music Style ranges from Folk, Pop to Rock.

So far i have:
Monitors: Dynaudio BM6A
Audio Interface: TC Konnekt 48

Budget: up to $1000 but of course the less i spend the better as this is a hobby

What do you think of the following combinations?

CHOICE BUDGET:
- Vocals: Studio Projects B1, $119.99
- Guitars:
Shure SM81, $349.97
OR Studio Projects C4, $360.00
OR anything cheaper like the Shure SM57?
CHOICE MORE HIGH-END: (is it worth it?/will we hear a difference?)
- Vocals: Audio-Technica AT4050, $480.00
- Guitars: ??
CHOICE : MORE PERSONALITY??: (again worth it?)
- Studio Projects TB1, $299.99
- Studio Projects T3, $599.99
- BLUE Bluebird, $299.99
- BLUE Baby Bottle, $499.97
- Audio-Technica AT4047/SV, $549.97

I don't think that would fit into my budget but would you recommend to add a better pre-amp? What about the Studio Projects tube pre-amp?

Thanks in advance for your feedback

AT 4050
AT4047

There, I spent your $1,000.

You can pick up some SDC's later.

 

[tojo]

get the audio techinca at 2020 works great for me

acoustic guitar, piano, vocals, amps etc

 

[pohaku]

Buy used. You can get an AT-4050 for $300-350 and an SM-81 for $200-225 used on e-bay. So for your $1000, you could get an AT-4050 and a pair of SM-81s. Personally, I prefer the AT-4041 or AT-4051 to the SM-81. The AT-4041 is @ $175-200 each used. You can get a new pair at 8th Street for $500. I'd guess that Full Compass would be cheaper. Used AT-4051s run about $250.

 

[antheo]

thanks for your input guys. I am doing this Blindfold Test:
transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200508.mic_shootout.html

Let me know if you know other tests like this.
The result promises to be interesting. I'll come back later.

 

[dickiefunk]

I don't think that would fit into my budget but would you recommend to add a better pre-amp? What about the Studio Projects tube pre-amp?

I used to have the VTB1 and it is a nice preamp. I since bought the DMP3 and I think it has the edge over the VTB1.
The DMP3 is nice on acoustic instruments + vocals.

 

[warble2]

You know, I've had great experiences with the CAD M177 on both vocals and acoustic guitars. I have two (although not a matched pair) and am currently using them to track an acoustic with IMO, great results. SDC or LDC mics can work for this purpose, and I've always gone with the CAD's (LDC) I have. The guitar I'm tracking is a custom built guitar (built in the 70's), and it has great body to it. The M177's love the guitar, and I love the M177's in return.

The M177 is a pretty neutral mic - no high frequency hype, and a single pattern cardioid. It pretty much picks up what it "hears", and I've managed to get some decent recordings early on with little or no treatment. I have to tell you though, do some reading on the Net about treatment. You'll find tips and could maybe come up with some makeshift stuff that would improve your recording space.

As far as pre-amps go, the Studio Projects VTB-1 is a nice little pre, but don't expect it to knock your socks off. When you're down in that range of pres, they are all maybe a little improvement over built-in pres on some interfaces. I loved my VTB-1 as well as the DMP3. DMP3 is a pretty clean, low cost pre. I would say it's a bit cleaner than the VTB-1, but we're kind of splitting hairs so to speak.

You'll find a lot of info simply doing some reading around here about what people have used, how they've used it, and how the various pre's stack up.

 

[antheo]

last email

I did the mics shoot-out test and this helped me sort things out.
I hope this is my last email about this topic for quite some times. So please don't hesitate to give me your feedback.

In the tests, I very much preferred:
B Sennheiser 421 $379.97
D Neumann TLM 103 $999.00
E Shure SM7 $349.97
H Rode NT-1 $229.95
K Schoeps P48 ???
Q AKG C-3000 $349.00
P Oktava 319 139 Euros = $205
A Studio Projects B1 $119.99
and did not like mics like Neumann U-87 and Audio Technica 4050!
This might talk about the inexperience of my ears ?
I don't know how to describe what i did not like about the U-87 but i found the AT4050 too clean somewhat with no life.

So now for a vocal mic, i am now looking into the 421, SM7 and the Oktava 319. It seems i would be happy with any of them.
I am tempted to go with the SM7b or the Senn 421 as they get much more warm reviews than the 319.
Any feedback about Senn 421 vs SM7b vs Oktava 319 for Vocal?
The only drawbacks about each mics are:
- Shure SM7: has very low output, and needs a good quality preamp to drive it properly???
- Sennheiser 421: annoying/fragile stand adapter??
- Oktava 319: not consistent???

What Mic would you then recommend for acoustic guitar, should i go with a small condenser: like the SM81, AT4041 or the cheaper Oktava MK012 or CAD e70 or should i go again with a Dynamic mic like a SM57 or a Heil PR-40 or a pair of Studio Projects C4 ?

I am also tempted by the cheap Cascade FAT HEAD II to add a cheap different paintbrush to my tool/play box.

 

[pohaku]

I really like the SM7 as a vocal mic and it can be used for lots of other things as well. Yes, it does require a preamp with some gain, especially for quieter vocals. Something that puts out at least 66db of clean gain would be desirable. More would be better if you can. I think the VTB-1 puts out better than 70db of gain if I recall correctly. You can get a new SM7 for in the neighborhood of $330 or so. Call Full Compass and ask. While they have a website, you have to call to get their best price and they often have the best deal. You might also want to consider an RE-20 which is another dynamic radio mic standard like the SM7. It needs a bit less gain and also sounds wonderful. Great on vocals (used by Bonnie Raitt and Stevie Wonder among others). Really great on horns and saxes. Can be used for kick and toms as well. A bit more expensive than an SM7, but can be found used for @$300 or so.

For midprice SDCs for guitar, I like the AT mics, although many here also like the Oktava. If you go with Oktava, get them from the Soundroom where you will get a quality pair. There are lots of marginal Oktavas and Chinese copies floating around so be careful.

 

[Big Kenny]

While not an sdc, I like an AT 4040 or 4033 on the 12th fret about a foot out, pointing slightly toward the soundhole. A pair of Mk 012's are very nice for more detail and stereo but for sitting in a mix, I prefer a large or mid sized diaphragm.

 

[antheo]

I really like the SM7 as a vocal mic and it can be used for lots of other things as well. Yes, it does require a preamp with some gain, especially for quieter vocals. Something that puts out at least 66db of clean gain would be desirable.

My interface has a total Preamp gain of 62 dB. Will that be OK?

For my knowledge, where do you see in the specs of the SM7b shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_SM7B_content
what gain does it require?

 

[pohaku]

I'd say its marginal, IMHO. Your pre would have to be quiet when turned up to 55db or so to use it - because you would probably have it turned all the way up or pretty close to it for softer vocals. My comments are based on my use of my SM7s. I pretty commonly have my pres cranked up to 55 or 60db of gain when I use mine. I trotted out the 66 db figure so you wouldn't be running the pre completely maxed - i.e., you would run it at 55 or 60db or so -- in order to minimize noise. I have original SM7s. Others have said that the current model, SM7b, is a little bit more sensitive, but I don't really know that to be true. Perhaps someone with a current model can chime in on this.

 

[antheo]

great answer on the Shure FAQ site: shure.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shure.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3115

 

[omtayslick]

For songwriting you would need a "pencil" mic.

But seriously, the Oktava 319 is a very fine mic when modded by Michael Joly. Search for reviews of modded 319's and check out
http://www.oktavamod.com/testimonials.html If you like the sound of the mic "stock", you will love it with the mods. I also second the suggestion of a Shure SM81. Nice, accurate, and honest on acoustic guitar.

 

[pohaku]

great answer on the Shure FAQ site: shure.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/shure.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3115

Good find. Depends how quiet your pre is at that level as well.