Microphone for recording Steel drums/ Congo's

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ambi

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Hey guys, an exciting thing happened to me today. The kind of thing that just hits you outa the blue and really keeps you alive, and motivated. I was driving down the street and i heard the sound of steel drums. I love steel drums, so i rushed home, got my mini disk player and microphone, and headed back to talk with the guy and hopefully record a few samples on the street. We ended up talking for about and hour, then i proceded to give him a ride home, and organize to record some demo's for him.
Im fairly new at this recording game (been messing around for years, just starting to get the basic knowledge base i need to make decent recording with what i have)

So i need to record steel drums! And some congos.

My current setup is a Shure sm58, running though an ART studio MP preamp, into my SBlive sound card, and then into logic audio or soundforge. i know this setup kinda blows, what its what i have to work with. im planning on renting a few mics to help capture each sound as best as possible, although i can only record one mic at a time.

What would you recomend to record steel drums, what mic? Also would a shure sm57 be sufficient to record a bass guitar? Should i plug it directly into my preamp, and into the computer without an amp? Im more concerned with gettin the actual bass frequencies, not as much the sound of the guitar.

and mic for congos?

What i was thinking of doing was renting an SM57 for the bass, the congos, and possibly the steel drum. But i was thinking of getting a decent condensor, to really get the full range of the steel drum, i find the sm58/57 can give things a really dull and muddy tone sometimes, and i really want to fully capture the body of the steel drum.


Sorry, one more thing, for the bass, would you recomend using a kick drum mic to really get those low frequencies? Sorry for all the quesitons, im just hyped up to actually have a subject to record, i don't want to disapoint him.

Thanks!
 
I really have no clue about steel drums, but I've been tracking Djembe and Doumbek, which are very similar to Congas. (Congo is an African nation). The problem is that what comes out of the bottom of the drum is a whole different animal from what comes off the skin, and the sound of the drum is a mixture of the 2, as well as frequencies that radiate from the vibrating body. For one mic, try one overhead pointed down at an angle toward the center of the body. MXL603, OktavaMC012, or for wicked cheap, Behrenger ECM8000.
But for capturing the deep bass frequencies, a kick drum mic is a good choice, such as AKG D112. Consider a cheap mixer as an option. I do a fair amount of battery powered remote recording with a Behrenger MXB 1002, a $120 mixer that can run on batteries and provides phantom power. I then can use 1 or 2 overheads, and the D112 for closemic'ing the bottom of the drum, then blend to taste. BTW, the D112 also works quite nicely for mic'ing bass cab or standup bass.-Richie
 
The ECM8000 is a great mic for recording congas and steel drums.
 
who makes that mic?

and from above, so you'd mic the bottom with a kick drum mic of the conga? or up on the top near the condensor?

i might rent a small mackie mixing board, but that would shoot the price of my rental WAY up, which i'd rather not do. so i guess i could record one mic at a time...
 
behringer mix? good? I heard all behringer stuff was basically garbage?
hmm. well i was looking at this Apex condensor mic that is really really good, i was thinking of renting that, and then a kick drum mic, and my shure sm58 for whatever else... but i could replace the apex with the behringer i suppose, if i twould be better. What is it, a condenor? is it actually a good microphone? what makes it good for congos and steel drums?


( The ECM8000 can be used with nearly any Real-Time Analyzer that provides a phantom power within +15 V to +48 V. Due to the ultra-linear frequency response of the microphone, the analyzer only gets the signal that is in the room)
www.zzounds.com/a--2676837 says its some sorta analyzer mic? what?
 
Well, Ambi, I'm a closet Behrenger user. The way I figure it is this. If you buy a very small Behrenger like the MXB1002, you get some amazingly good pres at the price point, multiple good features, and battery powered phantom power in an amazingly portable package. If you buy a bigger, more expensive Behrenger mixer, it uses the same pres! In other words, it's really not any better than an MXB1002, and you should have bought a Mackie or other serious mixer.
I don't track critical stuff for a CD on a Behrenger mixer, but as a little portable to go with a digital 4-tracker, it has exceeded all expectations for the $118 I paid for it. All I know is it does what I expected it to do, and a lot more.-Richie
 
If you are renting, you might want to try a U87 or some other good all-purpose large diaphram.

Be carefull with that ART preamp - be sure to drive the tubes very little - they can add alot of distortion you won't be happy with later on.
 
bdemail, yea i just discovered that earlier, i have to drive it pretty hard, and i hear the distortion, im thinking maybe i'll rent a board.

so you say the pre's in the behringer are decent? You think its worth renting a mackie over it? Ive used the mackie several times and have been satisfied with the results, but i think i was making a huge mistake with my wiring back then, making everything sound like total crap, i recently fixed it, and everything sounds worlds better. Anyways, the thing is the behringer is 200 canadian where i am, and the mackie is 600 canadian.

Im not buying it, so its not really a big deal, but it may be the difference between a 20 dollar rental fee, and a 60 dollar rental feel, not substantial, but, possible enough to warrant a switch to behringer to save a little cash.

im saving for traveling and im trying to cut down on spendings. anyways, if the mackie makes a difference i won't hesitate to get it, ive done it 3 times before.

u87? who makes that? it isn't a neuman is it?
 
Ambi,"decent" is relative. If you're renting a board, rent the Mackie. Don't misunderstand me. I said the Little Behrenger is a cheap Ho that doesn't have the diseases they all claim she does, and she works for $10 even if she is kind of ugly. If you're going to try to get the best sound you can for somebody else with rented gear, don't use the Behrenger, call an escort service.-Richie
 
hmm, i have access to my friends Roland sp808 ex sampler, which certainly has better sounding converters than my sblive, but i think it may only have one input. i don't really know yet.

i also have two computers in the same room, with with sb cards, one is much slower, but im sure i could put one mic into it, and one into this one, and record at the same time, and just send the track on the other computer to this one, and match them up... that could work?
if i had the sampler going at the same time that would make 3?
lot of work but it could work?
 
Recording on 2 computers at once - I don't recomend it. You might get things to match up aproximately, but it's would be difficult to get an exact match. Also, it is a logistical nightmare. Doesn't the soundblaster have a stereo input - making for 2 tracks? I've heard SB converters are actualy OK.
 
yes... it has one stereo input....
wait a minute!
so i can get a Y splittler and have two tracks!!?!?
mmm, two tracks...
 
hmm

you really should get a behringer ecm8000 mic.

you can afford 35$ us cant you?

the art preamp and the sm58 are not a good match (both lacking high end) but your preamp will sound better with the behringer mic!

record things at a distance of a few feet rather than close up with the ecm8000.

good luck!

:)
 
ok, so im going to rent a mackie board
so there are some good pre's.
and i guess i'll rent the ecm8000, no reason not to cause of the price, but why may i ask, would i use a 30 dollar mic, when i could use a 150 dollar Apex 410 mic? Is the behringer really that good?

and are they condensors?

i can get two distinct channels out of my SBlive if i get a Y splitter, and record to left and right, so i could do a stereo recording with either two apex 410,s or behringer ecm8000's, and pan one hard left, the other hard right, give it a fuller sound.

so what exactly is the behringer good for? high end? i guess cause its so cheap, i can just rent two of them as well as two apex 410's, just to test em both?

or two behringer ecm8000's for the steel drums, an apex 410 condensor for vocals and congas, and a kick drum mic for the congas as well...
does this sound good? i would assume that the apex 410 would be best everything becuase its a more expensive better mic, (great mic by the way, all around), but maybe the behringer is better for steel drums cause its great for high frequencies?

i still don't understand what the ecm8000 is, just a high frequency mic? i saw some thing about it that said it was like an analyser or something.
 
The ECM8000?s linear frequency response and omnidirectional polar pattern allows you to carry out measurement and alignment tasks with minimum hassle and maximum precision, making it a perfect complement for our ULTRA-CURVE PRO DSP8024 or any other real-time analyzer. Its rugged construction ensures years of trouble-free use.


its an analyzer? why would i want an analyzer, i want a mic!
 
I don't know anything about Apex mics, but price is not a very good indicator of whether a particular mic is appropriate for a particular task.

The very small diaphragm omnidirectional mics have advantages and disadvantages. They are they very flat - hence their usefulness as measurement mics. There is no proximity effect (which can be good or bad, depending on whether you want proximity effect). But they also tend to be a bit noisier than mics of other designs, which may be a problem when recording quiet sources, but not noticeable on loud sources. (I'd say that for steel pans this won't be a problem). The omnidirectional pattern will inevitably capture a certain amount of the room reflections, which, again, is an advantage or disadvantage depending on if the room sounds good or not. Mics of this design may also be more sensitive to humidity.
 
Ambi, you need to get something straight - what you should use if you are buying and what you should use if you are renting are 2 totally different things.

I don't know how it is around where you live, but here in NYC you can rent a U87 (a far superior mic to what you're considering using) for $30. You could also get a professional preamp - say a dual avalon for about the same price. The mics you're talking about are realy not worth renting.

If you are recording steel drum playing together with congas, you will want to dedicate 1 mic to each instrument. You could try what Richard Monroe suggested - with a mic under and a mic on top for the Congas, but it may complicate your life too much. The congas will still sound OK if you just mic them on top. The Steel drum you should also mic on top. Just try to keep a fair amount of space between the two performers to minimize bleed.

Again, you should not use either ECM8000 or SM58 if you can avoid it. Particularly for the steel drum it is important to have a nice clean sounding high end. Neither of these cheap mics will do the trick.
 
yes, i agree, well the same player plays both instruments, so it will be one at a time, so for the congos, i was thinking as you said, one above, probably a condensor, such as the apex 410 (it is really good, comparable to the expensive neuman mic), and some sort of kick drum mic below, i don't know which brand, i'll just get whatever, unless you guys can recomend something. and for the steel drums, i was just gonna maybe use two condensors such as the 410s, about 6 feet from the pan, and about 6 feet from each other, to record in stereo.

woud you recomend something else? im getting a mackie board by the way, decent pres, but not great, i know. And even though im renting, price is still a big factor, becuase the price of the rental varies depending on the price of the equipment. The 410's are excellent condensors for the price, and sound much better than most of the mics in its class, but, i don't know if it is apporpriet for steel drums, i know it will be great for vocals and other instruments thouhg, probably good for congos.

Anyways, ontop of that, what would be a good setup for the steel drums? like i said above? or would you recomend using the kick drum mic as well?

what i was thinking was, record it in stereo with the two condensor mics as i stated above, pan one hard left, the other hard right, then have him do the same performance over again, but only with the one kick drum mic, and have that panned center, to add some body to it, and a slight variation... any good?

and the congos the kick drum below, and condensor above?
 
the behringer ecm8000 is sold as a measurement mic for use with the behringer ultra curve pro EQ/analyzer.

the reason why it works for this purpose is because it has a very wide flat response.

small diaphragm condensers are generally the most accurate type of microphone. hence their use for analysis. this doesnt mean it isnt useful for recording.

a lot of people, including harvey gerst who is a pro, have found that this mic sounds good on percussion.

if you buy one you wont regret it (unless youre totally clueless).

why this seems like a horrible idea to some people is a wonderment. the worst that could happen is you would feel badly about the 35$.

rent whatever you want (good luck getting avalons and u87's for cheap where you live ha ha ha thats a good joke huh?) and record the steel drum dude.

is he paying you?

after youre done you wont have any new equipment to show for it will you? youll still have just an sm58.

sad.

:(
 
The problem with using a small diaphram mic, is that they sound thin - without much body. You might get away with this if the steel drums where part of a larger ensemble which included bass, and other intruments with bottom end, but for such a sparse arrangement, it is definitely not a good idea.

Also, although I admit I have never heard the ecm8000, cheap condensor mics tend to be harsh in the upper ranges - also a bad thing for this application.

Steel pan creates a complex sound with a wide range of frequencies. For this it is best to use a large diaphram condensor. If you would rather buy than rent, get a Rhode NT1, or if you have a little money, get the AKG C3000, or if you have a little more, the Neumann TLM103.

The mic setup you describe - 2 mics 6 feet apart, each 6 feet from the pan - this might not be so good. There is a general rule that 2 mics should be 3X as far from each other as they are from eachother's sound source. You might want to try an XY set-up - have the 2 mics so close they almost touch, but each facing at a different angle (by about 45deg) like the letter 'Y'.
 
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