micing VIOLINS

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MrLip

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Hello.

In the near future I am going to be recording a solo violin. In the past I've only recorded guitars and vocals. Would recording a violin be similar to recording an acoustic guitar?

Any tips on mic positioning, compression, effects and the like would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
With a bit of luck, jnorman will come along and offer a bit of advice - he/she seems to have experience recording orchestral instruments.
 
harmonically, the violin is a very different animal than an acoustic guitar, and recording any instrument for a classical solo requires some special considerations. while condenser mics are a good choice for acoustic guitar, they are not very appropriate for violin due to their upper end emphasis. the bowed strings generate an extraordinary amount of high harmonic content, and benefit from warmer mics. you will find that most pro studios will mic strings with ribbon mics - the beyer m160 and m130 are common, with coles 4038s and royer r-121s being the choice of studios that specialize in classical and orchestral recording.

my recommendation for a solo violin would be a blumlein pair of ribbon mics at about 3-4 feet distance, 6 feet high, aimed straight on at the player's body. if you have a really nice room, you can get the mics out at about 6-8 feet, and let the ribbon mics give you some ambience - this is truly where the blumlein pair excels. if possible, find a nice hall and work the mics at 8-10 feet out and about 10 feet up - this is a common arrangement for recording small string ensembles, and works well for almost any solo or small ensemble of woodwinds, brass or strings. for any distant mic setup, you may want to give the final mix a slight boost around 5K to give it a little "air".

if ribbon mics are not available, use a tube mic, or use one of the darker condensers, such as the neumann tlm193s coupled with a nice smooth tube preamp. if you simply have no access to these mics, if you are careful, you can sometimes get an excellent recording with a large dynamic mic, such as the sennheiser 421s or the EV-RE-20s.

an alternate micing method which works well for this application is a single ribbon mic at about 2-3 feet coupled with a coincident pair of nice condensers at about 6-8 feet in a nice room. balance the intimacy of the ribbon with the stereo image created by the condensers.

many pros will not use any compression for solo classical instruments, and most experienced performers agree, striving to retain as much of the original dynamic content as possible. if you are using 2" analog tape, you probably will not need any compression. i record digitally, so i do use light compression, or peak limiting to make certain i do not introduce any digital distortion from high-harmonic peaks that do not show up on the meters. track dry. if you feel the need for eq at the input, you need to reposition your mics. processing is always a personal thing, but i tend to use either a small amount of large hall reverb, or a bit greater amount of a smaller hall setting (a good-quality reverb is much more crucial for a solo performance than it is for most instruments in a rock band). i often experiment with a couple of mic arrangements at the beginning of a session, and then sit down with the performer to get their input on the kind of sound they find most appropriate for their material - some folks like the more intimate studio-type sound, while others are quite insistent on a distant-mic type of sound so common on most classical recordings. there is a strong tradition for the "right" kind of sound for classical recordings, and unless the performer is after something special, you should do your best to emulate that tradition - have the performer bring you 2 or 3 of their favorite CDs that have the kind of sound they want to acheive. A/B your work against those. good luck.
 
A bit of advice, indeed! Your post has already changed my approach to recording, and I expect rereadings will have a similar effect. It's so useful to have some experienced input regarding the recording of acoustic instruments.

You mention tube mics and tube preamps. In your experience, what happens when solid state preamps come into the picture? I'm interested in more instruments than just the violin.
 
the effect of tube mics and tube pre's for microphones vs. solid state preamps is very similar to the differences between tube and solid state guitar amps. the use of either type is dependent on the application. in the case of a naturally warm mic like a ribbon, i will use a solid state mic pre, such as the sonosax sx-m2. on the other hand, for almost any application where you are using a condenser, a good tube mic pre will certainly benefit the sound, and also give you a bit of natural tube compression - a nice plus if you are recording to digital. if you have a question about a specific application, let me know.
 
Hi,
I have recorded quite a bit of solo violin and fiddle.
I find that the room is an important issue but if you come 4 to 5 inches off the bridge with a large condensor and tube front end you can hear wood. It sounds so nice. The comments were. "Wow how did you get me to sound so rich." It doesn't sound processed.
It was easy to find it's place and glue it in the mix.
 
the intimacy afforded by really close mic'ing can be very effective. i find, though, that many performers simply can't maintain a short mic distance like that in a consistent manner. i have tried really close micing like that with acoustic guitar, flute, oboe, and violins, and none of those folks could be still enough while they played. i am able to mic myself on acoustic guitar at about 8" without too much variation or too much compression, but i do better at about 1 foot. and the violinists and woodwind players i have worked with, who tend to stand while playing, move around too much. i tend to mic those instruments at around 2 feet. i do use close micing on the harp, which has a relatively fixed position, and i mix it with a more distant mic. but if you've got a performer that can work a violin that close, you can sure get some great results!
 
jnorman....
I agree with you. I have had some performers that have given up and asked me to do the guitar parts.
I have a close friend whom I use a lot on violin.
He is incredible to say the least. Yes it does depend on the performer.
Have either of you seen the new Mindprint EnVoice unit?
I adore it. I am interested in other opinions.
It is distributed in Steinbergs page usa.
 
i'm only recently becoming acquainted with the in's and outs of engineering, but i am a violinist and have recorded in dozens of different studios - mostly rock tracks etc.. my only comment is on mic placement. i've found that the best sound i get (to my ears) is to place the mic overhead pointing directly down at the bridge of the violin (2-3 feet usually). By moving the mic in an arc to the lower and higher string sides of the bridge you can emphasize a brighter or darker tone which is often needed to compensate for either the instrument or the mic.
 
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