Micing the singer's PA?

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sjaguar13

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The singer I recorded a couple of times refuses to sing directly into the recording mic. He wants to sing into his PA system and wants me to mic that. He recommends (but knows nothing) using my drum mics (2 Octava MC012s and 2 SM57s) with the Octavas in the back of the room and the SM57s up close with a Studio Projects C1 in the middle. I record them where they practice which isn't a real good sounding room. I'm thinking room mics aren't such a good idea.
 
Hey there.

Sounds like maybe you need to educate this guy a little. And explain to him why singing directly into the recording mic is so important. I would also explain to him Why placing a mic in front of PA speakers is such a terrible idea. Personally, I wouldnt record his vocals the way he is suggesting.


Good luck with this guy.


Steven
 
Just point out who the sound engineer is.......... Whcih is why your doing the recording and he isn't.
 
tell him you can do it his way, but it will cost another $20 per hour and results are not guaranteed :)
 
Tell him that if he's looking for an AM radio/telephone voice kind of vocal sound, mic'ing the PA's a good way to do it, but if he actually wants a good-sounding vocal, he'll need to sing direct into the recording mic.

yikes....
 
Record it directly first and if you need to reamp it through the PA you can do that later. If he hates headphones and wants to sing with monitors you can place the mic directly between the speakers and invert the phase on one of the monitors to keep bleed to a minimum. U2 does a lot of their vocals that way.

If he really wants to hold a mic but a condensor sounds better you can have him hold a 'dummy' mic while he sings.
 
be tricky. Run his mic into an A/B/Y splitter, and send one to the PA and record him like he wants, and take the other signal and record it direct, and then let him hear for himself which sounds better. Or tell him that he is a total and utter idjit.
 
i'll bet he has vocal effects as well... a complete no-no to track effects... which is what micing his PA would really be!
 
this is an example of one of the oldest problems we have to deal with--educating musicians about the difference between "live" and "studio".

if you can't educate him, then it sounds to me like someone i wouldn't mind seeing seek out another studio. ;-P
 
I worked with a dude that wanted me to do something similar. He had a bunch of guitar fx pedals (delay, chorus, phaser, etc) that he routed his mic through during live shows. They hung from his belt, and he would hit them for different tunes. Really, he didn't like the sound of his own voice at all, which was weird because it was actually pretty good. The solution I used was to give him a set of iso cans, and sent a mix to them that was dripping wet, but I actually recorded him dry.
 
I don't work with idiots that don't have a clue but refuse to do it my way....
 
Ironically, he doesn't use effects at all. He just likes the sound from his speakers.
 
Wouldn't this depend on what the goal of the recording is? If the band wants to know what they sound like live, wouldn't mic'ing the PA (or running a line directly from the PA to a recording input) be more appropriate than using a mic that would not ordinarily be available at a live venue?
 
Are there other people involved in this project? Are they sane? If so, I'll tell you what ya do. When this guy is taking a leak, or something, you make real exasperated-like to the others guys in the band, like he is a real problem, and he's going to ruin the sound of the recording. Turn them all against eachother, and then at least it will be entertaining for you!
 
that's kinda what the strokes do. except i don't think they use a distant mic on amp. and they intend to get a low fi sound.

if the band sounds like a "the" band then go ahead and experiment with it, it might work for their stuff... or it might not and when they all absolutely hate the vocal sound, you can tell them that it was because their genius singer wouldn't sing into the right mic.

then you can redo it the way you want to do it and next time you work with the band they'll believe you when you say it's gonna sound bad.
 
Yes, it's true the guy is a bonehead. Yes, it's true that his idea is probably not going to sound even intelligible, as a final product.

On the other foolish side of it though, I recall the 60s, OK pretty dimly, but absolutely stupid experimentation was the order of the day. Many hit songs had dreadful sound, and extremely cosmic recording practices, compared with our modern clinical capturing of sound. I sometimes wonder if trying goofy shit, and finding and exploiting idiosyncrasies in gear can't still be a valid creative tool. I've at the very least had a lot of fun in doing so.

But if the man so insists, and it is not personally abhorrent to you, do the job. He who insisteth usually has the purse.

Maybe try some communication skills with this guy, and ask him why HE thinks that is the way to go. What his specific intent is by recording that way. Is it something specific that he wants his voice to sound like that you could achieve with your rack, say, that would meet his need? even just in his monitor. Who or what is trying to emulate?

Is there anything he could do to treat the room you mention... bass traps in corners or that type of thing... to mitigate the terror, as it were.

Good luck to you.
 
I saw the word "clinical" so I scanned forward to see when the word "digital" would pop up.

I'm surprised.

MP

p.s. Clinical? Really? No. . .
 
Do what he asks with a cheerful attitude... then wait for him to come to the conclusion that is either sucks or is exactly what he's looking to achieve. Ya never know, ya might strike gold by accident... lord knows you wouldn't be the first.
 
mjhigg said:
Are there other people involved in this project? Are they sane? If so, I'll tell you what ya do. When this guy is taking a leak, or something, you make real exasperated-like to the others guys in the band, like he is a real problem, and he's going to ruin the sound of the recording. Turn them all against eachother, and then at least it will be entertaining for you!
Click to expand...


Quit giving away my secrets.
 
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