Mic volume very quiet - possible problem in setup?

[BainTrain]

I want to record some speech onto my computer. Fairly simple. Since my dad's on the radio and has some spare professional equipment lying around I thought I'd use some of his so it sounds good, but now I have some problems. I literally have to yell into the mic to get it to register any sound at all. With +30 dB boost in my audio settings it's hardly audible. Another +30 in Audacity and I get warble. There is no sweet spot, trust me. This was after downgrading my drivers to the laptop manufacturer's set. Beforehand I could amplify it all I wanted and not get distortion, but wicked noise instead.

My hardware is as follows:

Decent-quality dynamic mic I bought on Amazon
XLR to TS into preamp
Vacuum tube preamp
TS to TS out of preamp into 3.5mm laptop input (using 1/4 -> 3.5mm adapter)
Toshiba laptop with onboard Realtek HD audio (Windows 7 64-bit)

My preamp is set to 60 gain and full output. With these settings I can clip if I basically eat the mic. Normal speaking from about 8 inches away usually hovers around 0.

Obviously with that much amplification I get distortion, but anything less and it's literally inaudible. Therein lies the problem. I shouldn't have any distortion but good volume, ideally. I really have no idea what the problem is. And no, I don't have any other equipment I could test my setup on handy. I could always head over to my parents' house, but I'd prefer to settle this at home if possible.

Thanks for the help.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and all software volume settings are maxed.

 

[chrisharris]

and you're totally sure it's a dynamic mic that doesn't need phantom power?

 

[BainTrain]

and you're totally sure it's a dynamic mic that doesn't need phantom power?

Yep, got the manual right here. It's a Nady SP-4C if you want to check for yourself.

 

[chrisharris]

No, I believe you, lol.

It's always the mic cord, right?

If it's not that, then I'm useless to you because I will have exhausted 100% of my technical knowledge. Good luck.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

My preamp is set to 60 gain and full output. With these settings I can clip if I basically eat the mic. Normal speaking from about 8 inches away usually hovers around 0.

Hovers around 0 what? Are you referring to 0dBFS, 0dBu or some other unit?

XLR to TS into preamp

This is a potential contributor to your problem. Use an XLR-XLR cable. Balanced interconnection is designed to reject noise. There is more than one way to connect balanced to unbalanced, and they don't all work the same.

TS to TS out of preamp into 3.5mm laptop input (using 1/4 -> 3.5mm adapter)

Another potential source of problems. Is the output of the unnamed preamp balanced? Is the output level a +4 or -10 signal? Best bet here is to bypass the cheap built-in sound card and get a proper audio interface.

Oh yeah, and all software volume settings are maxed.

Don't do that. If you get your analog side worked out the software gains ought to be fine at their normal unity settings.

It's possible you have an equipment problem, but first eliminate user error. It's normal to track at levels that are much lower than a finished product. Peaking around -12dBFS is fine. As a result you generally need more gain in your monitoring system than you would for normal listening.

Finally, realize that you are using a $20 mic. Don't expect greatness from it.

 

[bruiser1964]

"Decent-quality dynamic mic I bought on Amazon
XLR to TS into preamp
Vacuum tube preamp
TS to TS out of preamp into 3.5mm laptop input (using 1/4 -> 3.5mm adapter)
Toshiba laptop with onboard Realtek HD audio (Windows 7 64-bit)"

I'm with Bouldersoundguy, the XLR - TRS rings an alarm if the preamp is a mic pre why does it have a jack input? what pre is it? If it were an instrument pre it will not be matched to mic level input...

More info!...

 

[BainTrain]

"Decent-quality dynamic mic I bought on Amazon
XLR to TS into preamp
Vacuum tube preamp
TS to TS out of preamp into 3.5mm laptop input (using 1/4 -> 3.5mm adapter)
Toshiba laptop with onboard Realtek HD audio (Windows 7 64-bit)"

I'm with Bouldersoundguy, the XLR - TRS rings an alarm if the preamp is a mic pre why does it have a jack input? what pre is it? If it were an instrument pre it will not be matched to mic level input...

More info!...

It's called a Tube Ultragain Mic200. It DOES have an XLR input (and output for that matter), I just didn't have an XLR/XLR cord so I used what I had. I know balanced is better, but according to the copious reviews online people are having no problems at all using the included XLR/TS (not TRS) cord.

Hovers around 0 what? Are you referring to 0dBFS, 0dBU or some other unit?

It's not labeled on the preamp, but the range is -24 to +12/clip.

Finally, realize that you are using a $20 mic. Don't expect greatness from it.

I don't consider my expectations, those being the ability to hear myself with less noise than signal, to be unreasonable.

 

[bruiser1964]

I had a look at the manual and can't see why that would not work it would be better with an XLR - XLR but... or a balanced TRS.
Have you tried another instrument? guitar? to see if the levels are different?
Beg or steal another cable to test!

 

[bouldersoundguy]

It's called a Tube Ultragain Mic200. It DOES have an XLR input (and output for that matter), I just didn't have an XLR/XLR cord so I used what I had. I know balanced is better, but according to the copious reviews online people are having no problems at all using the included XLR/TS (not TRS) cord.

As I said, there are different ways to connect balanced to unbalanced. I can think of three possible ways to wire an XLR-TS cable, each of which could behave differently depending on the gear involved. Maybe the cable isn't a problem, but until you try a correct cable you won't know.

It's not labeled on the preamp, but the range is -24 to +12/clip.

Then it's almost certainly dBu. Right around 0dBu should be fine. That leaves the connection from the preamp to the 3.5mm input on the computer. The output of the preamp is +4dBu while the input of the laptop is almost certainly meant for a much lower level from a microphone. You are running one mic preamp into another. Basically you have some not very compatible gear. I suspect some change in the connection between the preamp and computer would make all this function, but without being there with a collection of adapters I can't do much more to help. Try this: use you 1/4"-3.5mm adapter directly on your mic cable and put it into the input on the laptop.

 

[BainTrain]

As I said, there are different ways to connect balanced to unbalanced. I can think of three possible ways to wire an XLR-TS cable, each of which could behave differently depending on the gear involved. Maybe the cable isn't a problem, but until you try a correct cable you won't know.



Then it's almost certainly dBu. Right around 0dBu should be fine. That leaves the connection from the preamp to the 3.5mm input on the computer. The output of the preamp is +4dBu while the input of the laptop is almost certainly meant for a much lower level from a microphone. You are running one mic preamp into another. Basically you have some not very compatible gear. I suspect some change in the connection between the preamp and computer would make all this function, but without being there with a collection of adapters I can't do much more to help. Try this: use you 1/4"-3.5mm adapter directly on your mic cable and put it into the input on the laptop.

Without the preamp my laptop gets no signal at all. That's why I got the preamp in the first place - I didn't actually know that dynamic mics needed 50-60 dB of gain in order to output anything audible.

I tested my setup with an older XP laptop with the same results, so it's almost certainly either the mic, preamp, or cables. I bought XLR/XLR and XLR/TRS (not TS this time) cables. Even if they don't help at least I'll be using the preamp the way the manufacturer intended once I do figure out what's wrong. In the meantime I'll fiddle with the gain and output and see if maybe there's a level that will magically work. It's possible that I'm overloading the card and it responds by, for some reason, outputting drastically reduced volume.

EDIT: Just an update because I know you're all very worried about whether or not I can get my mic working or not. I read some reviews for my mic online and several of them say that the cable it came with is either shoddy or defective. Apparently sometimes the mic will stop working altogether and sometimes it'll get really quiet like mine. Another few people said that they needed to apply phantom power to the mic to get its volume to normal levels, which is weird because it's a dynamic mic. I know that unless the stars align and God turns his vengeance onto me there's almost a 0% chance of phantom power damaging a dynamic mic, so I guess it's worth a try, but since I'm using a TS/XLR cable I can't do that until my new stuff gets here.

 

[sjjohnston]

bouldersoundguy's post seems to be spot on to me.

To amplify (so to speak), here's the catalog of things you're doing wrong or possibly doing wrong:

- Big one: connecting with XLR-TS cable. As bouldersoundguy mentions, how it's wired is unknown. Almost definitely, pin 1 is connected to shield/sleeve, and most likely pin 2 is connected to the tip. Pin 3 could be connected to nothing or to shield/sleeve or the tip . If it's connected to nothing, you'd be floating one leg of the microphone's output transformer, which ordinarily is a bad thing to do. If it's connected to shield/sleeve (likely), you're simply grounding one leg of the mic's input, which at least throws away 6 db of signal and may otherwise affect the mic's output. If it were connected to tip, it wouldn't work at all.

- On the same theme: the 1/4" input on the mic preamp may not even be intended for a mic, but for an instrument or line input. That's generally the case with the mic preamps I have. That could result in a number of bad things, the most likely of which are: (i) the input impedance is way higher than what the mic is intended to be connected to and (ii) the mic preamp, expecting to get a much higher-level signal, is either reducing it with a pad or skipping an amplification stage that the XLR input runs through.

- Connecting the mic preamp's input to the computer's 1/8" (aka 3.5mm) input. bouldersoundguy is very likely correct that the computer input is a mic input. The reason you're getting distortion is that you're massively overdriving the mic preamp that's built into the computer's internal soundcard.

In addition to the standard mic cable, you need a decent computer interface with a line-level input.

 

[BainTrain]

In addition to the standard mic cable, you need a decent computer interface with a line-level input.

It turns out my laptop's mic in is also a line in, and that's exactly what was causing my volume issues. My card prompts me to tell it if I just plugged in a mic or a line whenever something enters its 3.5mm jack. Since I had no idea what exactly constitutes a line-level input I never touched it for fear of damaging something, but...yeah, there you go. You're winner. The signal is still fairly distorted, but I blame that on the fact that I'm using crappy TS tables which are significantly longer than they need to be, something I know can degrade signals very quickly depending on the wire and signal.

Thanks for the help everybody.

 

[mixsit]

It turns out my laptop's mic in is also a line in, and that's exactly what was causing my volume issues. My card prompts me to tell it if I just plugged in a mic or a line whenever something enters its 3.5mm jack. Since I had no idea what exactly constitutes a line-level input I never touched it for fear of damaging something, but...yeah, there you go. You're winner. The signal is still fairly distorted, but I blame that on the fact that I'm using crappy TS tables which are significantly longer than they need to be, something I know can degrade signals very quickly depending on the wire and signal.

Thanks for the help everybody.

Sounds like you're partly there then. But 'long (even crappy unless they're broken/flakey) TS cable is not a source of distortion, more the pick up of more low level hum, buzz, that sort of thing.
Lower the preamp out signal some more?

 

[BainTrain]

Sounds like you're partly there then. But 'long (even crappy unless they're broken/flakey) TS cable is not a source of distortion, more the pick up of more low level hum, buzz, that sort of thing.
Lower the preamp out signal some more?

I didn't mean distorted so much as low-quality, like there was noise. The SNR of my mic is actually quite good for the cost, so I doubt it's that. I'm using cables not designed for the preamp, one of which is at least ten years old (was sitting in my attic). The fact that I was software boosting it 30 dB doesn't help there, and I have a feeling once I get some good quality cables that can carry the signal like they're supposed to I won't need to. Then again, the mic's sensitivity is -76 dB, so I may just have to scream.