Mic stand reflection filters... Usefull or gimick?

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wmalan

wmalan

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Been looking at condenser mics and see there are several offering "reflection filters". Those semi-circle foam absorbers that sit behind the mic (sE Electronics X1 Studio Bundle from Sweetwater is one example). I realize the vocal booth (using whatever means gets you there), is the best. That said, is there some value to use one of these units behind the mic? My room will have basic treatments but was thinking this could simplify my vocal mike setup. Anyone using them?
 
I wasn't whole heartily convinced at first but we picked one up for work as it was part of a bundle with the sE Titan we got. In our well treated life room it make a surprising amount of difference, taking the vocals from "clean and clear with some ambience" to "clean, clear and completely dead". I bought one of the sE Project Reflection Filters for home use and love it. Saying that, it's still vitally important to have something behind you as well (i.e duvet/thick blanket hanging on the wall behind you) and you do need to follow the instructions as if you place the mic right into the refection filter it effects the sound of the mic, but positioned correctly the mic sounds the same and room ambience is reduced.

I've played with a couple of the other brands versions of the reflections filter and found that the sE one's seemed to be one of the few, if not the only ones, where there was little or no change to the sound of the mic.

They don't completely make up for an untreated or poorly treated room but for vocal recordings an sE reflection filter and a duvet behind the singer makes a very noticeable difference IMO.
 
I never used one in the past, and instead would do some partial blanket thing behind the mic, but always about 2-3 feet back from the mic, and not on every session, just those times when I want a little less room ambiance into the back of the mic, since I often use something in-between a cardioid and figure-8 pattern, so the backside has a decent amount of pickup.
For a pure cardioid pattern, I wouldn't bother with it, since there's enough backside rejection already built into the mic/pattern.

That said...I've been curious about the reflection filters, though I never liked the wrap-around approach most of them have, and IMO, they make the whole sound too dead. A lot of folks seem to think it's best to go for "dead"...(hence all the obsession with vocal booths), but IMO, that's something that is good for voice-overs and spoken word, but not so much for sung vocals in most cases.
So anyway....I finally I found a reflection filter that is NOT a wrap-around reflection filter, and went ahead and ordered one last week, and should have it by tomorrow, so I will see how it works.

I got this one: PostAudio Production Tools for Recording | ARF Filters for Commercial and Private Studios | The ARF-12

Also....I don't care for the idea of having filter + mic on one stand that most models do. Yeah, it makes it more compact, but I can't see it a good thing having the mic hard-clamped to a the filter rig, regardless if you use a shock mount, not to mention if you also clamp a pop filter to the same stand.
I will put my reflection filter on its own stand, and keep the mic on a separate one...and I'll probably use that metal connection bar on the reflection filter for a headphone cradle or something. :)

I'll post back on my reflection filter in the next couple of days after I give it a tryout.
 
miroslav said:
Also....I don't care for the idea of having filter + mic on one stand that most models do. Yeah, it makes it more compact, but I can't see it a good thing having the mic hard-clamped to a the filter rig, regardless if you use a shock mount, not to mention if you also clamp a pop filter to the same stand.
Click to expand...

I always forget to mention this. Yeah, i've not used the reflection filter and mic on the same stand since the first week of owning it. The early sE version clamp mechanisms were god awful, tilted everything to one side, and with a heavy mic the whole thing just fell over! They have made some improvements to it but it's still not great. Since that first week i've just had the filter section on a separate mic stand and the mic on it's own stand :)
 
I guess then it comes down to how my room is ultimately treated to find out if it enhances the sound or makes it too dead. This will be my first condenser mic having only used sm58's. As such I'm thinking clarity will be increased along with picking up the room attributes as well. The simplicity of the reflection filter (if it works for me) is what appeals the most.

BTW, After posting the question, the forum thread bot suggested a link that talked about the Real Traps Personal Recording Booth which is basically a 2 sided fold open booth on a stand. That gives me another option (though I'd build one DIY) especially as it could be more flexible. So the Reflection Filter looks like a tool to pursue a bit more... Great help guys!
 
Useful, though I'm sceptical about imitations of the proper sE having seen the details in it's construction.

Some years back I was commissioned to record a fairly well known SF author reading extracts from one of her books. However, her health meant she was unable to travel to a treated studio. I went to her house with a reflexion filter and a selection of mics to choose from and got results that were darn near as good as a real, professionally treated studio.

I've also had a try of the much cheaper home studio version--I'd characterise it as 80% as good as its big brother for 50% of the price.

Anyway, since the book recording the sE Reflexion filter is a tool I use a lot, especially for spoken word stuff.
 
Bobbsy said:
I've also had a try of the much cheaper home studio version--I'd characterise it as 80% as good as its big brother for 50% of the price.
Click to expand...

I think that very fairly sums up the sE Project Reflection filter :thumbs up:

Saying that, with the mic bundle we first got for work it worked about less than 50% of the price, and when i bought mine for home i bought a lot of gear from one place at the same time and they very kindly knocked off and extra 50% for me so it came to £60 and threw in the metal pop filter for free (it's amazing what a phone call, repeat business, and a good report with a shop will do).
 
I used one for years before i got some treatment and it served me well.
Much better than nothing at all.
 
I built my own too for less than $20.I basically did this but slightly different w/ the mounting-
DIY: $10 Microphone GOBO - Sound Dampener Shield - YouTube

for mounting I used a couple stud nailer straps w/ a 5/16" hole drilled in & these stick-on 1"x1" zip tie holders from Lowes.
micisogobo021.jpg

micisogobo023.jpg

micisogobo007-1.jpg


the main thing for me is keeping other noises out moreso than having completely dead vocals.
the next project is a triple mic holder-simple hurricane strap w/ 3 holes drilled in it for mountimg ipad,mic,& pop filter.
 
The video was perfect! Not sure of the sound properties of the foam used (I'm still learning all this) but worth a try!
 
The video makes it look like it's the same thing as the sE filter, and the guy talks about not having to spend $100 for a store-bought reflection filter...but what he built for $10 is pretty not of much value at all.

Reflection filters (decent ones) have multiple layers of material that goes beyond just foam and some wire mesh.
I just got the ARF-12 I mentioned earlier in this thread...and the first thing I did was to open up one end to see what was inside...and true to their website description, the ARF-12 has a second perforated aluminum layer and fiberglass layer inside, plus there were 3 other layers of material....and then finally the foam on the outside.

The filter that guy built with that chicken wire and foam is not anywhere near the same, and I doubt it blocks anything more than a little bit of HF reflections...so it certainly isn't a true reflection filter and definitely not a typical
gobo just 'cuz he made it the same shape and used some air-conditioner foam. :D

I got the ARF-12 mounted on a stand, and will be doing some vocals with it in the next couple of days, so I'll post back then.
 
Similar to what Miroslav was saying, the sE Reflexion I have is also a very different animal to some foam on chicken wire. It's composed of six layers of different materials and includes an air gap in the centre and has measured and published acoustic characteristics.

Miro's ARF filter also looks interesting and, again, is streets ahead of a bit of foam.
 
Bobbsy said:
Similar to what Miroslav was saying, the sE Reflexion I have is also a very different animal to some foam on chicken wire. It's composed of six layers of different materials and includes an air gap in the centre and has measured and published acoustic characteristics.

Miro's ARF filter also looks interesting and, again, is streets ahead of a bit of foam.
Click to expand...

I mainly went for the ARF-12 over the sE and some others because of its more compact size....understanding that it would not be always as effective as the ones that wrap around the mic, but the plus-side is that I can position it tighter and also have a bit more sight-lines....plus, I can also use it for amp cab mics close-up if desired.
 
That makes total sense for you applications...I use my sE almost exclusively for spoken word recordings where the improvement in acoustics is more important than the size or versatility.
 
So I ran across the YouTube video on the how and why the sE unit is built. As you guys said, a lot more goes into it than I thought (of course I'm a nube on this so...). It would be cool if I could actually demo these along with different mics... So many options. That said my local GS Sam Ash do have demo rooms. I'll see how far they'll go with helping out on this.
 
I don't know if this is the video wmalan was referring to but it's an interesting view nonetheless. Perhaps the best bit is the last third where he discusses why the typical foam in a box or foam on a semi round surface is a bad, not good idea.

 
So ... I guess that sitting on my bed then pulling my blankets up over my head to record a vocal track isn't going to muster a useable vocal track within a mix. :facepalm:

I've been doing this all wrong :D
 
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