Mic Pres with 75-80dB of gain...whatchagot?

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kidvybes

kidvybes

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...OK...outside of the SP VTB-1 pre, what other less expensive preamps off gain levels in the 75-80BdB?...for ribbon or dynamic mics (like the SM7B), I find that to get a good strong signal you need in excess of 65dB...any recommendations?...
 
M-audio DMP-3: 66db gain [$150]
Five Fish Studios SC-1: 72 db gain [DIY kit]
Could also check out Seventh Circle kits
T
 
I spent a few hours yesterday afternoon messing around with a pair of new ACM3s. Other than my onyx board (which remain surprisingly quiet even with the gain cranked) the only pres I have in my miserable excuse for a rack is an ART MPA Gold and an ART DPSII. I was fully expecting the MPA to kick the DPS's ass around the block but the DPS was able to provide a lot more clean gain. Also, some of the presets on the DPS were a nice match for the mics and the variable impedence feature allowed me to get a bit more beef out of the mics as well. The pre is supposed to give you up to 68 db of gain (with the +20 boost button engaged), although I only pushed mine up to the upper 50s. I've been tempted to let it go but now I'm glad I hung on to mine - it hasn't been a great match for most of the mics in my kit, but I have a feeling I'll be getting a bit more more use out of it again. The analogue-only version TPS II goes for dirt-cheap on ebay (150ish?). Might be worth a try...
 
Why the need for so much gain? Ultimately, you are limited by preamp noise, not gain. So long as you have sufficient gain to exceed your converter (or tape deck, what have you), the preamp noise will dominate, so you can makeup whatever gain you still require with a second stage amp or with a digital gain change.

With a very quiet source and a low sensitivity ribbon mic, preamp noise even with the quietest pre can be considerable. The amount of gain is not material; you're looking at equivalent microphone self-noise of 40dBA or possibly even much worse.
 
Why the need for so much gain? Ultimately, you are limited by preamp noise, not gain. So long as you have sufficient gain to exceed your converter (or tape deck, what have you), the preamp noise will dominate, so you can makeup whatever gain you still require with a second stage amp or with a digital gain change.

With a very quiet source and a low sensitivity ribbon mic, preamp noise even with the quietest pre can be considerable. The amount of gain is not material; you're looking at equivalent microphone self-noise of 40dBA or possibly even much worse.

...hmmm...I am basing my "need" for gain on my experience tracking vocals with an SM7B or Heil PR40...my Amek 9098 DMA (very clean) gives me my most "useable" tracking signal at about 65dB of gain (into my M-Audio PCI card) with no additional "boost" in the chain...on the other hand, a rebuilt Neve 1290 I own, when pushed into the 65-70dB range exemplifies your descrition...transformer noise becomes too prominant to produce a usable signal...other pres I own (GT Brick, Rane MS1-B, Presonus MP20 (modded), etc...) don't have enough gain to deliver a good signal (even with the gain turned up in my Cubase/ProTools mixer)...when using a condenser mic, there's no problem getting ample signal, but the dynamics and non-phantom powered ribbon mics I own just seem to "eat" gain...

...please feel free to make more specific recommendations (in regard to second-stage amps or other options)...thanks!
 
Grace m101 works well with my Fatheads (Cascade Ribbons)...plenty of gain. And, the Art DMPA gives 'em enough gain as well (without distortion) in my case.
 
AEA "TRP" The Ribbon Preamp

~84db of supposedly clean gain.

I'm surprised the Brick doesn't do it for you, I've not owned one but heard nothing but rave reviews about them.
 
I'm surprised the Brick doesn't do it for you, I've not owned one but heard nothing but rave reviews about them.

...tops out at 55dB with a bit of noise (tube generated no doubt)...works well with Condenser mics, but a bit anemic with ribbon and dynamics (IMHO)...
 
Well here's the thing, let's say your mic is -60dBV/Pa, and you are recording a source that is 74dBSPL at the capsule, that's -80dBV. Even an extremely quiet pre won't exceed equivalent input noise of -130dBV. That gives you SNR of a mere 50dB, or comparable to condenser mic self-noise of around 40dBA (a bit more than 44dB because of the A-weighting). Most people would consider that to be fairly horrible noise, and the more you amplify it, the more objectionable it will become.

But let's take that for what it is. A converter generally will do a little better than -100dBV of noise, so you need to get your noise about 10dB above that level, which is only 40dB of gain. That gives you a signal level of -40dBV, which is probably something like -55dBFS. No, that's not a strong signal level, but you know what? You won't change the SNR materially if you add another 50dB of analog gain before the converter, or just do a 50dB digital gain change.

The bottom line is that insensitive ribbon mics and quiet sources are never going to mix, because the physics doesn't allow noise to get much below the levels listed above.

AEA's ribbon pre attempts to change that equation with a very high impedance input, but it needs a cooperating mic, which would have a correspondingly high-ratio transformer. That increases the mic's listed sensitivity, but also requires a preamp with that high input impedance and low current noise. That's what AEA has done.

Even so, if the ribbon mic doesn't take advantage of that with an appropriate transformer, there is nothing further to be done. +80dB of gain won't change that 50dB SNR.

I would use the quietest preamp you can find at 50-60dB of gain, and use digital gain change and noise reduction as required . . .
 
the sytek mpx-4aii would be a good bet. Quiet, clean, makes stuff louder...
 
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