Mic input level?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Roel
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Roel

Roel

That SMART guy.
I was recording whispering this weekend, and I noticed that my AKG C3000 started recording really everything when I turned the gain up. Think it sounded better too.

Does this mean that I have been recording at a much too low level all the time? The singer is rather close to the mic (about 10 inch) and a higher input level causes peaking. So, put him further away, and turn the level up?
 
It's peakin' cause your level is too high for loud singing. I would turn it down for regular-loud singin'.. I usually run all my meters just below the threshold of peaking... usually just 2 notches before the red (on an L.e.d. meter... I like to keep everything close to the limit, but you gotta be carefull and use discression, cause if it is an un-compressed instrument like drums, and the drummer hits a bit hard on a hit, it could go into the red and distort it... So judge it typically, on the loudest peak volume and insrument will do... Consider your voice an instrument, and get them meters up for your whispering.... and you will know it's good, although whispering is quiet and with the mic being hotter, you will pick up a fart, two doors down the street, if you know what I mean, so you gotta make sure, you have good soundproofing and stuff like furnaces and and dishwashers are turned off for these sessions, (i learned the hard way)... But yes to your statement about pulling back in distance on the mic....
 
Gain stage your gear so that at each stage;mike pre,fader,sub and master (or whatever combination you have)to have the loudest possible signal without clipping the circuit into distortion.
If you are tracking with a pc or other digital medium,give yourself a little cushion (maybe 3 dB) cause ANY "overs" at this point will make the most awful unmusical square wave distortion.Since you have been careful to keep good headroom in the previous stages,you can afford the safety factor at the digital recorder.

Tom
 
Thanks for the response...

But maybe I should be a lillte more precise in my question. hehe :D
What I'm aiming at is: do I put him closer to the mic when singing normally, with less gain (to prevent from clipping), or do I put him a little further, with more gain (but still not clipping).

I'll try it as soon as possible, my guess is the second one...
 
Personally, I don't move a singer, I always stay 16-18 inches off the mic, and set the gain leven accordingly to the volume of the voice.... Hope this helps you a bit better
 
You will have to try it and see, it depends on the physical construction of the mic, for every mic/instrument(voice) combination there will be a 'sweet spot'.
 
Something else to think about...The more distance you have between the singer and the mic, the more "room sound" you will get. That said, if you've got a crappy sounding room like most home studios you probably won't want him too far away. You'll have all sorts of short reverberation/delay on the track that you won't be able to get rid of and it'll be real hard to get the vocals to sound "in your face" at mix down.
 
Yo Rolling Roel:]

If you have a mic preamp, such as the ART, as I have in my studio, you can twiddle the input dial, and the output dial and get a pretty good level without clipping the vocal.

Of course, your recording device has a lot to do with getting what you want -- but, I have found that some vocals need this type of tweaking. As stated by the others, you do need to keep the level up near the top without going to clip. Why not do the vocal separate, LAST, after you have all the music done? That should give you good balance.

Green Hornet
 
i will always move the singer closer to the mic during softer singing. you get that "up close" sound, but for anything other than soft singing, move him/her back cuz you'll start peaking like mad
 
chaka kahn

Yep, experiment. The farther you get back and the more you turn it up, the more room and other noises you'll encounter.
Try cranking the gain all the way up, and put the singer on the roof.
Paul
 
if you turn the gain down, and record the singer at a closer distance, then you'll eliminate unwanted background noise and signal noise
 
You are really asking about two different things here.

Mic placement.

and

Gain structure.

Indeed they go hand in hand, but each has it's own set of "rules".

Mic placement:

In above posts, it was described that closer micing means less room noise introduced into the sound on tape. Farther away means more room sound going to tape. Which you decide to use depends on the type of "space" you want the recorded track to have. If a more "direct" sound is sought, close mic. If a more "open" sound is sought, distance mic.

There is also a difference created by the quality of the transformer, tube, or circuit built into the mic that will change the sound between close and distance micing. Each mic will suggest what it really likes. Also, the SPL (sound pressure level) the mic in capable of handling comes into play, and how well the tranformer, tube, or circuit in the mic deals with overloading it. I know that certain mics actually handle overloading in a more ear friendly way then others.

The rule you follow about mic placement is USE YOUR EARS to get the "depth" of sound you want on that track, and pay little attention to gain at first (except that you are not overloading the preamp.....yet...:))

Gain structure:

I like reading posts where people think just because a red light lit up that the circuit distorted. I tells me who reads manuals and who doesn't, and who understands the role of distortion in circuits and who doesn't. The whole idea of "never distort or have a red light lit up" is absurd!!!

Follow THIS rule about setting gain. If you HEAR distortion, then it happened. If DIDN'T hear distortion, it didn't happen. Easy enough.

Most every "peak indicator" on any piece of gear, except on tape machine inputs is set to go off anywhere between -4 and -8 dB of the ONSET of distortion (if the manual of your gear doesn't tell you, call their tech support and find out. DON'T accept an answer of "it is not set below" because they all are!). The peak indicator light going on DOESN'T mean that you reached the level of distorting the input of something because it went on, although it COULD if you are well over the -4 to -8 setting it was set at and technically are starting to distort. Think of that light as a friendly little reminder that you are close to it! :)

Now that we know that peak indicators doesn't necessarily mean you have started to distort, let's move on to the decision if you SHOULD introduce distortion into the sound or not.

In a digital device, definately DON'T introduce distortion, UNLESS that nasty digital distortion sound is what you are after. Let me tell you though that I have heard places were this actually sounds "good" per se. I recorded a guitar solo on a ADAT where we recorded way too hot. That couple dB over digital 0 on the meters just provided a sound that was cool for the solo in that particular song. I have heard of other engineers doing this vary thing too. So while it is not per se "standard practice" and should mostly be avoided, DON'T be afraid to experiment with it!!!

Analog devices are a whole different story concerning distorting inputs.

A trick I use when using solid state preamps on drummers that hit inconsistently is to actually make the preamp distort a bit on the louder hits. Distortion clips the sine wave, which mean that the sound does not per se get louder (actually the sound CAN indeed be percieved as getting louder even in a clipping stage. An understanding of the Fletcher/Munson relative loudness curves will help you understand why, also, the more in clipping it is, the louder is will seem. The dynamics will be gone, and you will hear a lot of background garbage too, but it is louder!!! :)). Distortion in analog circuits is a gradual effect, meaning, that the more your distort, the more you will actually hear it. Refer to the above about "hearing distortion". Analog cicuits are different mostly in that the level of distortion "increases" as the input get's hotter. But, just because you have distortion introduced doesnt' necessarily mean that is a bad thing. It might actually sound very cool. Again, EXPERIMENT.

Better analog circuits will handle distortion better then cheap analog circuits, but you should play around with your units to see how loud they can actually get before you HEAR distortion, and ascertain whether low level distortion (or high level....:)) sounds good on your unit or not. It may or may not depending upon the type of sound you want going to tape or to the next gain stage.

DON'T be fooled into the thinking that distortion is bad!!! Distortion is one of the best tricks in the book on helping achieve warm sounding recordings with the best sound to noise ratios. There are other tricks available to alleviate background noise cause by hot gain levels. Pretty much, anytime you touch a analog eq or compressor, you are introducing at least a small amount of distortion to the sound, so, obviously distortion is not such a bad thing after all. The AMOUNT of distortion is your main concern really, because distortion exists everywhere in audio, whether you like it or not. A good understanding of gain structure puts YOU in control of how much distortion you want.

Hope this helps.

Ed
 
So you let Digital tape clip just becuase you cant hear th e distortion? Depending on the system we get a red light if the recordeder gets 3 samples in a row at 0dB. We may not hear distortion up to 5 samples and over, BUT, maybe the speakers feel that distortion.

I could be wrong. What am I missing here. Im not going to wear my equipement out faster for the sake of a few dB.
 
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