mic for recording hurdy gurdy / bagpipe

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darkwillow

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Hello,

Does anyone has any experience with recording hurdy gurdy/ and bagpipe?

I am looking for an mic so i can make good quality(for cd's) recordings at home in Cubase Sx. In what price range must i look for such a mic?

Thanks in advance,,,
 
The Behringer ECM-8000 should do a great job on either "instrument" for under $40.
 
Yep... listen to Dr. Gerst

he really knows his stuff


I think NASA should hire him to get that space robot back on its feet :)
 
With all due respect to Mr. Gerst, who is a bona fide expert on the subject of mics, I find the self noise of the Behringers excessive and distracting. For relatively inexpensive, I would choose AKG C2000B ($150-180). For mid priced, a pair of Studio Projects C-4's ($379). More upscale- AKG C414B-ULS or C414TL-II
($650-$800). Big bucks-Soundelux ifet7 ($1850). Although I've never done bagpipes, either highland or Ullean pipes, I have done hurdy Gurdy, crumhorn, and portable organ with the C414, with very acceptable results.-Richie
 
Richie,

Some ECM8000's were prone to being "hissy" at average to higher gain levels, but there are a lot who's self noise isn't apparent until you have wound the gain to near maximum and if you are doing that, I believe you need to re-examine your mic placement, etc. The ECM's that I have are very quiet.

One of the best acoustic tracks I have done was with an ECM out from the neck joint and another sitting 1" off the face of the headstock capturing the timber resonance.............unfortunately it only worked with one particular guitar.

:cool:
 
Richard Monroe said:
With all due respect to Mr. Gerst, who is a bona fide expert on the subject of mics, I find the self noise of the Behringers excessive and distracting. -Richie
Click to expand...
Excessive and distracting? On bagpipes? :D
 
@richard monroe,

Thank you for your answer.

I have a question about the pair of Studio Projects C-4's. Would one get a better result using 2 mic's for recording Hurdy Gurdy rather than one? And what would be the placement of the mic-es?

Any documentation about mic placement is very welcome.
 
i forgot one question,,,

I see the AKG C2000B and the AKG C3000B are close in pricerange. Is the AKG C3000B worth the little extra?
 
Darkwillow- Here are some answers, I think. One, not all versions of bagpipes are as loud as highland pipes, and nouse is always an issue to me. The C-4's are sold only in pairs, and I would use a stereo pair if I was using small diaphragm mics, and back them off a little, but only if you have a good room. For a single small diaphragm mic, I would use Oktava MC012 or Marshall MXL 603, which can be bought separately, rather cheaply.
Lastly, and most importantly, C2000B and 3000B are completely different animals. C2000B is a fairly colored, cardioid only, inexpensive, midsized diaphragm with a pad and bass cut, which is versatile as hell. It has good off axis response, responds well to fast transients, and is good for vocals, acoustic guitar, percussion, especially toms and Congas, and works well as an overhead.
The 3000B is a multipolar, large diaphragm mic with often harsh, brittle highs, which I find only useful as an overpriced doorstop. -Richie

To Harvey- I'm particularly familiar with Ullean pipes. With a single
pipe, it is a melodic instrument, which doesn't have the constant drone associated with Highland pipes, and there are points where it actually stops. They are also much quieter than highland pipes. Oh well, i'll definitely admit that if you buy an ECM8000, it will be good for something, and you haven't lost much. I do own a pair, but I don't use them, because they hiss like snakes.
 
Richard Monroe said:
To Harvey- I'm particularly familiar with Ullean pipes. With a single pipe, it is a melodic instrument, which doesn't have the constant drone associated with Highland pipes, and there are points where it actually stops. They are also much quieter than highland pipes. Oh well, i'll definitely admit that if you buy an ECM8000, it will be good for something, and you haven't lost much. I do own a pair, but I don't use them, because they hiss like snakes.
Click to expand...
I had my tongue fairly well planted in my cheek when I responded, but I am surprised by the amount of noise you're experiencing with the ECM8000's. The two ECM8000's that I have are quieter and louder than my Audix TR-40's, and the noise is very low. I should point out that most of the things we record here hafta fit into pretty dense rock mixes, so maybe I just haven't listened hard enough to very quiet sources standing alone.

Bagpipes that acually stop at some point during a song? I've always thought of pipes as the Scottish equivelant of the five string banjo; they also never stop. :(
 
I play 5-string banjo.

A gentleman is defined as one who knows how to play a banjo, and doesn't.

Perfect pitch is defined as getting the banjo into the dumpster without hitting the sides.

My wife is after me to learn both the Ullean and Great pipes.
 
Yes, the Ullean pipes are more of a folk instrument, like the difference between a Celtic lap harp and a full size floor model. They sound a little bit like a slightly overblown clarinet. One of the best examples can be found on the CD "Granuaile" with Rita Connolly. -Richie
 
thanks again for your answer.

The mic is mostly for Hurdy recording which i play myself, but sometimes bagpipes and maybe accordeon.

do you have any experience with the Rode nt-2000. I really like the different settings that are possible with this mic and it is within my budget.
 
I have no experience with the Rode, although I do use NTK. I,m sure others here do.-Richie
 
Hurdy gudy would probably not be the easiest instrument to mic well, but i would think it'd depend on what its position in the mix is to be. Because there's several distinct sounds going on at once, mic placement would be critical in getting a good balance between the chanterelles/drones/trompette if you need to hear everything clearly. Probably a fair starting point would be two SD mics sort of like the "over the shoulder" guitar technique: one pointing near the bridge at the front of the instrument, another over the player's right shoulder, pointing down at the chien.

Bagpipe is another similar problem, because there are different sounds coming from different positions. You haven't mentioned what kind of bagpipe. I've had good results micing my 16" cornemuse du centre with one MXL603 in front of the chanter, but i wasn't concerned about the bass drone because the mix was already full of droney instruments. The ultimate, of course, would be a great sounding room and a great sounding mic.

Btw, my "main" instrument is the uilleann pipes! I haven't tried recording them yet, but it could get messy because of all the different sound sources - 7 pipes total, some have their exits like 3 feet apart. Instruments in different pitches can also vary widely in terms of volume. A "normal" D set is about as loud as a loud violin or two, but my C set is almost too quiet to be heard if there's more than a few people having a conversation nearby. (I'm also about to start the hurdy-gurdy - i'm a few weeks away from finishing building my first one! :D )

Be seeing you.
 
bgavin said:
I play 5-string banjo.

A gentleman is defined as one who knows how to play a banjo, and doesn't.

Perfect pitch is defined as getting the banjo into the dumpster without hitting the sides.

My wife is after me to learn both the Ullean and Great pipes.
Click to expand...

Hey, that was pretty funny bgavin!:p
 
as a banjer player myself, I find it amusing when some kick ass Scruggs style picker just "whoop-asses" the pants off of some metal wannabe shredder. Usually upon first listen, the drooling guitar player (drooling learned from the banjo player, of course!), the guitar player can't believe someone could whip out notes that fast and clean without a head full of thrashing hairdo. Then, the banjer picker is then allowed to spit his "chew" on the metalheads shoes!! Better than Crossroads, for sure!
 
@Piper Spice

Well i hope you will enjoy learning to play the Hurdy Gurdy. Quite difficult in the beginning but very very fun.

Please remember that playing is one thing, but adjusting the Hurdy Gurdy is another craft that you must!!! learn. A piece of cigarette paper under the melody string is an very large differance.

I am seeing Gilles Chabenat(i am sure you know him) end of this month and will ask him about recording hurdy gurdy.

Frédéric Salter, the engineer for Ad Vielle Que Pourra, has the following suggestions:

The problem is that, in order to have all the warmth from the "bourdon", it is necessary to have the mike up close. Unfortunately, in doing so, depending on the piece, the "chien" will suddenly jump out at you, or the "chanterelle". The answer is to have a large diaphragm condensor mike, a warm sounding one such as a vintage Neumann u67, u47, or a TLM170, about 4 or 5 feet away, (of course, good acoustics are important), to get maximum warmth, in order not to over-equalize, something I had to do every time. Move the mike around to get the best balance between the 3 elements, and keep in mind you will still have to equalize to dull or sharpen the "chien" (around 6k to 10k) and to bring the "chanterelle" in or out(around 600hz to 1k). I am sure you realize also that some instruments, no matter what you do, will never sound the way you want them to. It [the hurdy-gurdy] is a strange but fascinating animal.
 
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