Metal Guitar 4th try, please help

[jmxdrummer]

here I go again. please give me your input. I recorded my guitar with one sm57 and recorded two performances. panned one hard right and the other hard left. I changed my guitar rig a bit. ibannez rg series guitar > digitech metalmaster pedal > rocktron gainiac tube preamp > bbe sonic maximizer (rackmount) > behringer autocom (compresser/limiter) > crate combo amp (2x12). I also used a tube mic preamp this time.

recording one

 

[jonnyc]

There's only so much you're going to squeeze outta that crate. It sounds like you might wanna crank down the low mids a bit and turn up the highs a bit, or just get a good amp. Honestly with a little tweaking you can get pretty close to decent which is all you really need from a home recording, although my short stint with a good amp has me pretty amazed at this point.

 

[ssscientist]

You need a better amp.

This one sounds pinched, stale and overprocessed.

Try a Peavey 30 watt tube amp with a single 12" speaker -- you could probably trade your Crate + $100 for a gently used one and it would be a BIG step up...

 

[metalhead28]

This sounds alot better than your last post. I don't think you've got your amp dialed in anywhere near the best it could be, and I suspect that tone would get lost in a mix pretty fast.
My first impression....you're using way too much gear in your rig.

Distortion pedal, preamp, sonic maximizer, compressor, amp....?

What does the amp sound like all by itself? Or what about the amp and just the rocktron, or just the digitech? Try things one at a time and see what that gives you. I think you're under the impression that the more you throw in the chain the more goodness you'll get out of it. I think this is similar to your mic'ing approach.....once you stripped it down and simplified things it got alot better. I think you need to simplify your rig too. At the very least, please ditch the BBE and the compressor. Absolutely not needed for a metal guitar sound. If you need all of that to approach something usable out of your amp, you should try to get ahold of a new amp. The best tone is going to come from good guitar > good amp > mic. That's all there is to it.

Also remember that the tone that really works in a mix might not sound unbelievable on it's own. You don't need crazy gain or anything like that.

 

[amra]

I have had guitarists come into my little project studio and try to lay down tracks with a digitech metal master pedal, and they all sound like crap. It has a boomy bottom end, and a fizzy, glassy, exaggerated high end that is like nails on a chalkboard. One of the worst sounding pedals ever made, IMO. When you try to compensate for it by rolling off the highs on your amp, it just sounds muffled, but still boomy and fizzy. This is coming from someone who loves metal, BTW.

If you really want to help your guitar sound, chunk that pedal as far as you can throw it, and try your rocktron preamp as a boost to your amps distortion. Don't know if your amps distortion is nice enough to sound good with just a gain boost, but it would have to sound better than a metal master.

Oh, yeah. +1 to what metalhead told you.

 

[metalhead28]

I have had guitarists come into my project studio and try to lay down tracks with a digitech metal master pedal, and they all sound like crap. It has a boomy bottom end, and a fizzy, glassy, exaggerated high end that is like nails on a chalkboard. One of the worst sounding pedals ever made, IMO......

Yeah, I suspected that this pedal was probably doing him no good.

It's funny, but pretty much any sort of pedal that says "Metal" on it in any way is usually the worst thing you could use for metal.

 

[Grey Angel]

Yeah, I suspected that this pedal was probably doing him no good.

It's funny, but pretty much any sort of pedal that says "Metal" on it in any way is usually the worst thing you could use for metal.

Agreed. You have a tube preamp? I'd figure that you could get a nice sound out of that alone.

 

[metalhead28]

Agreed. You have a tube preamp? I'd figure that you could get a nice sound out of that alone.

I suspect we are not talking about an actual tube preamp, but rather the much more common "TOOB" variety.

Not that they are worthless or anything, but they will not impart the same qualities as a full voltage tube pre-amp.

 

[brevity]

That guitar tone... all I used was a music man HD-130R head (130watts tube power section and solid state preamp so you need a fuzz), a music man 4x12 and a big muff in front. That's it. Simplicity is the key. That, and a good amp. Tube amplification is the way to go to get the tone you're looking for. Btw all the reverb is natural, I stuffed the cab into a cedar closet and used two mics... one above everything to catch the natural reverb, and it's two tracks one octave above the other, panned about 1/3 right and left.

 

[metalhead28]

That guitar tone... all I used was a music man HD-130R head (130watts tube power section and solid state preamp so you need a fuzz), a music man 4x12 and a big muff in front. That's it. Simplicity is the key. That, and a good amp. Tube amplification is the way to go to get the tone you're looking for. Btw all the reverb is natural, I stuffed the cab into a cedar closet and used two mics... one above everything to catch the natural reverb, and it's two tracks one octave above the other, panned about 1/3 right and left.

Thats an...uh.....interesting track.

Guitar's got a pretty cool snarl to it. If you pumped that gain up a little more you'd be approaching Sunlight Studios Death Metal territory,

 

[gcapel]

My first impression....you're using way too much gear in your rig.

Distortion pedal, preamp, sonic maximizer, compressor, amp....?

What does the amp sound like all by itself? Or what about the amp and just the rocktron, or just the digitech? Try things one at a time and see what that gives you..

If there are effects in your signal chain that you must have, one solution is a true bypass box. I made one for 3 effects. The idea is that you totally bypass your effects. With most newer digital effects the bypass circuit goes through a buffer killing some of your guitar tone. You can buy the bypass boxes online. I know keeley makes one. If your good with electronics i would make one. www.diystompboxes.com

 

[metalhead28]

If there are effects in your signal chain that you must have, one solution is a true bypass box. I made one for 3 effects. The idea is that you totally bypass your effects. With most newer digital effects the bypass circuit goes through a buffer killing some of your guitar tone. You can buy the bypass boxes online. I know keeley makes one. If your good with electronics i would make one. www.diystompboxes.com

I'm presuming that those are not occasional effects, but rather the building blocks of his core tone for this recording. I agree that true bypass effects are a must for keeping your tone clean when playing live, but in this situation I don't think that is a concern. If I was recording a heavy metal rhythm guitar, the last thing I would do is leave an effect in the signal chain. True bypass or not.

 

[jmxdrummer]

im convinced, I need to get a new amp. Im currently looking at a Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo Amp.

here is the decription:

Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo Amp Features:

* 50W all-tube power
* Texture variable Class A/B simulation control
* 2 footswitchable channels
* EQ and volume for each channel
* Footswitchable gain/volume boost on lead channel
* 12" ValveKing speaker
* Reverb with level control
* Buffered effects loop
* Resonance and presence controls
* External speaker jack
* 2 - 6L6GC power amp tubes
* 3 - 12AX7 preamp tubes
* 4, 8, or 16 ohms

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Amps?sku=481442
let me know what you guys think.

 

[Exocaster]

Plug into the Gainiac, then connect the Gainiac to the effects return of the 2x12 combo. You're using the Crate as a power amp this way. Mic up one speaker with the 57. There's a ton of unnecessary gear in that chain.

The dirt box, BBE, and compressor really don't need to be there. The Rocktron pre probably beats the crap out of the pre stage of the Crate.

 

[Exocaster]

im convinced, I need to get a new amp. Im currently looking at a Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo Amp.

I don't know much about the Valvekings, other than they're fairly inexpensive. They're probably not bad. What's your budget? Is metal your primary style?

 

[metalhead28]

im convinced, I need to get a new amp. Im currently looking at a Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo Amp.

here is the decription:

Peavey ValveKing 112 Combo Amp Features:

* 50W all-tube power
* Texture variable Class A/B simulation control
* 2 footswitchable channels
* EQ and volume for each channel
* Footswitchable gain/volume boost on lead channel
* 12" ValveKing speaker
* Reverb with level control
* Buffered effects loop
* Resonance and presence controls
* External speaker jack
* 2 - 6L6GC power amp tubes
* 3 - 12AX7 preamp tubes
* 4, 8, or 16 ohms

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Amps?sku=481442
let me know what you guys think.

I have heard both good and bad things about those Valve King amps. I've never heard one myself though. The general consensus seems to be that they sound pretty decent, but with an upgraded speaker they sound much better. I can't recommend one having never heard it, but it seems like a good deal for an all tube amp. Any way you can try one out first?

 

[jmxdrummer]

I haven't tried it out yet. Yesterday, I was in sam ash trying out a small fender tube amp (15watts). That little guitar amp kicks all the solid states combo amps asses. I currently looking to try out the peavey amp. I mostly play punk/metal/hardcore but I dod play other styles. I will try one last time with my crate amp (pluggin the gainiac into the return of the amp) and see what happens. If i had a little more cash I would be looking a marshall half stack, but I been saving my cash for a tama maple drum set ($2000). I spend more time behind the drum kit then behind the guitar.

 

[jonnyc]

I'd look at getting a better amp before the kit, but that's if it's for the studio. You can make a medicore kit sound great with well tuned heads and a good player, but with guitars the amp has to have the tone, yes a good guitar player helps but he can't force that crate to sound like a tube amp. Get a good guitar chain going and your recordings might amaze you.