MD8, CD Burners and compression

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asland

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I'm ready to purchase a CD Burner to transfer songs from my MD8 to. Any recommendations. Make it as painless as possible. Also, what's all this fuss I've been hearing about compression? With proper recording levels, mics, and mixdown my songs are OK.
What is compression to all of you others and what does it sound like?
 
I was gonna let someone more qualified than I answer this but since no one's responded yet I'll take a crack at it. What kind of compression are you talking about? Data compression inherent with Minidisc medium or compression as in compressing the clips on a recording? I think there's also something that people are calling decompression when you go from minidisc to CD. Also, what are you mixing down to, CD, MD, DAT, computer?

[This message has been edited by Ray J (edited 07-18-2000).]
 
Thanks for responding. I was referring to the compression inherent in minidisk formats. My real question is..... does anybody have a good recommendation about a CD recorder that is compatable for use with the Yamaha MD8? I want to transfer songs from minidisk format to CD. Currently I am making casette tapes. Is there any other equipment I'll need beyond just the CD recorder itself? etc...
 
The data compression in MD, from what I can understand,is what is used to fit all the data on something the size of a minidisc. The MD8 and Sony I think uses what is called ATRAC. In the early versions it was obvious when comparing to non-compressed CD quality recording. The Yamaha MD8 uses ATRAC 3.5 which is faily recent and an improvement from the 2.0 ATRAC of years ago. Some of the Sony MD stereo decks use 4.0 and 4.5 which I hear is real good. Some people say they can hear the compression in the MD8 and some people can't. Either way, the sound quality is very good from the MD8. Your question is probably how to minimize the loss in transfer. Well, the MD8 has no digital outs, therefore no matter what you transfer to you will be doing it through the analog outs, so there will be some sound degregation. I can't really tell you exactly what you need, because I am still trial mixing to cassette until I get something to mix down to.Also some people have claimed that the analog transfer can actually warm up your digital recordings. If your mixing straight from the MD8 to CD there will be other issues you will have to deal with concerning RWCDs vs comercial CDs. You will probably end up having to mixdown either to two tracks within the MD8, then make an analog transfer to CD, or mix down to something else then make the transfer to CD. Now, if you plan on getting your mix right on cassette, then send that mix, not from the cassette but from the MD8 straight to CD (in other words mixing onto cassette until you get the mix right then going straight to CD from MD8and by passing the cassette)the dynamics may change when you go to CD and you may end up with a mix that's too bright. This is a question I have and if you do it this way let me know how it turns out.

As far as other equipment, well do you have an effects unit for reverb or something? Also, a compressor is helpful in getting you volume up on the CD without clipping, but not a must. There are also sound enhancers/exciters that people put between their mix and CD that can improve you perceived volume and recording itself. Hope this helps some. I'm headed to work, I will check with you tomorrow........peace... Ray J

As for as advise on a CD burner and what to look for, well, like I said, I haven't gotten that far yet, but I'm sure someone else can help you with this one.......Ray J

[This message has been edited by Ray J (edited 07-18-2000).]
 
I have been usong the MD-8 in my studio for almost a year now. For mixdown and cd burning I go to the input of my computer's sound card, and record a stereo wav into sound forge 4.5. If needed I can add some software compression and a tad of enhancement before I burn it to my HP cd burner. I have a few mp3 files on my homepage if anyone cares to hear the results.
 
Thanks Ray J and AmpJones. Assumming I don't want to record to CD via my Mac, couldn't I just use the stereo out channels on back of my MD8 straight to a CD burner? (I've already added reverb and effects so it's ready to go to cassette.... why not straight to CD?)
 
Most people advise against it. Mainly because if you blow a mix, it gets expensive. But I'm sure it can be done. You can mix to RWCDs, but won't be able to check your mix on commercial CD players because most of them don't play RWs, this is what I'm told, anyway. I will try not to get to long-winded on you this time, but I am very interested in this subject because I would like to do the same thing (go staight to CD to eliminate more sound degregation).

Now, let's say you know how to mix this stuff already because you did it on cassette and it sounded right, will that mix be right when going to the digital domain instead of the cassette which adds it own color, or will it be too bright. If anyone knows or thinks that they know, please enlighten me.

Then again, (here I go), if you have a monitoring system you can really nail a mix on, without checking it on a commercial player or several commercial players then I would say go for it. And to try to answer your question, yeah, I think most stand alone CD burners have analog ins where you can go from your stereo outs to the CD burner. Whew...peace ...I'm out ....Ray J

Thought I was finished, didn't ya. Nilbog, virtual.ray, someone help, please.

[This message has been edited by Ray J (edited 07-19-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Ray J (edited 07-19-2000).]
 
If you're going to put it on CD, master it. Run it through compression and normalize it, getting the absolute most out of what your CD will hold. Even if EVERY part on your song is already compressed, compressing the mix makes a great difference in apparent quality on your final media.

I think this makes ALL the difference; even if it's played like shit, it "sounds" good. That is, it doesn't sound like band rehearsal!
 
THis is what I have just been dealing with. I ended up buying the pioneer cd burner (cant remember the model # right now).
What I do is mix to the cd via the stereo outs. Then I pop the cd into my computer, and transfer the track to a wav file on my harddrive. I use soundforge then to normalize it, and make some minor changes. From there, I encode mp3's, or burn cd's using the wav file (dont use the mp3). Of course, I have a cd burner in my computer as well. This is called the "Monkey method" and if you do a search on the main hr site, you can find out more.

About ATRAC compression. ATRAC saves space by taking out the frequencies of sound out of a file that the human ear can't hear. That's about 80% of the file. So that leaves the file 20% of it's original size. You can read up on the technology at www.minidisc.org

Also, it's true you can't check your mix on most commericial systems, but thats only if you use the cdrw discs. If you mix down to a cdr, then your okay. And yes, the audio only discs that commercial grade burners use are more expensive. About $2 a piece. This is because your buying a copyright royalty along with the disc, because they assume your using it to make backup copies of your music collection. Someone needs to sell them for cheaper for homerecording use.

And the digital out is no bid deal, I think. The analog transfer helps warm up the sound, plus it's already analog because the MD8 has an analog mixer!

I hope that helps.
-Nilbog
 
Well now that the question of CD burning is getting answered, I'm suddenly hearing a lot more about computer interfacing. Maybe I should explore this as an option. I hate to be a bother but is there a Mac compatable (iMac 8.6 version) CD burning program and kit? Anyone know? I'll go to Comp USA and ask questions as well, but most of those salespeople are not musicians and home recording artists.
 
It is quite practical to mix to CD, and not expensive as everyone says it is. On average, I pay $1.20 per CD(with jewel case), but I have paid less for them ($40 for 50 on a spindle). Now, question how much you spend on a single cassette?
 
I'd call Apple or try their website. Are you using a G3, G4, or PowerBook? If not, you're probably S.O.L.

If you DO use one of these, there will be an application somewhere out there.

*Suuumwhaaaaaaare Hoaver Thu Raaaaneboooo.."
 
I totally missed the fact you're using an iMac. There is a post about it here somewhere--saw it just a while ago--but I'm headed to bed.

If nothing else, e-mail the person who posted the message originally and see how they solved their problem.
 
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