Mastering Question

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When Mastering a songs what is the best way to ensure that they all end up having the same volume? Is this what normalizing does? Are normalizing functions default settings considered radio standard? Help please.
 
Normalization is used about 0% of the time (+/-.05%).

You use your ears.

(Radio standard...? And since when does everything have to be the same volume?)
 
I guess I should have asked my question a different way. In recordings that I have done in the past as well as many others that I have heard tend to not have as much volume as cd's that you would buy from a store(professional) And to go a step further I have heard cds that the volume varies from song to song. What is the solution?
 
I should probably explain myself even further. I am a bluegrass musician. I take pride in what I put out there for people to hear. Many bluegrass DJ's are particular about the cd's that they play. For the most part bluegrass albums are done independently. I don't have 300 or 400 dollars to shell out per song to be mastered as most other grassers dont either. Afterall we play Bluegrass. Most of the DJs that I have talked to complain about the volume level on CDs that are independently done as opposed to being on a label. I am just looking for a solution for that problem. There has to be a number that is somewhat standard for radio after all the labels want the stuff played in any genre.
 
Well honestly mastering should be done by people who have a good amount of experience and know-how. I know there are programs out there that may say mastering but nothing will get you results like a real mastering engineer will. I wont recommend any programs because I havent used any but I do wish you luck.
 
Also where are you getting 3-400 per song from. Ditch whoever that is right away. There are very reputable mastering engineers (Who post on these boards no less) who will do a fine job for a fraction of that maybe even a whole album for around that.

IF you do wish to do it yourself you probably don't need anything you don't already have. All you need to push the volume really is a compressor limiter and you can use a parametric EQ to squash any harshness that results. It might not sound good but it will sound loud.
Aside from the unbeliveably nice effective gear a pro Mastering engineer has to manipulate your stereo file withcoupled with years of experience doing exactly what you are asking about across multiple genres of music, the big difference with a professional is their listening chain and environement is far superior, and their ears are coming at the material fresh so they will hear things you won't and will be thus able to correct for it (or even come bac to you and tell you how to adjust in the mix to avoid a problem in the master). You won't get that if you DIY

if the purpose of the exercise is to prep your music to go out to the masses why wouldn't you want it to be shown in the best possible light
BTW I am not a mastering engineer, simply a happy customer
 
I do want my music to be heard at the best it can be. I am happy with my mixing ability. However I know next to nothing about mastering. I'm just trying to find a starting point and obviously normalizing is not it.
 
(I know next to nothing about mastering my own mixes also)

The starting point is to do what the mixes are telling you to do. Generally, you already did that while you were mixing.
 
Normalizing raises the volume uniformly to a given percentage point (100% is the absolute ceiling or 0dB.) It is not very effective for setting all songs at the same volume. While it brings up the entire waveform as a whole, it stops when the highest peak in the song reaches that target point. If one of your songs happens to have one out-of-control peak this will prevent the song from being pushed any louder.

The next consideration is to reduce the peaks before pushing up the volume. This is done with compression, however, reducing peaks means reducing song dynamics. This is often undesirable because the precious dynamic range has already been reduced while recording due to the limitations of today's digital audio gear. It takes away from the artistic feel and power that musicians rely upon when playing the song.

Compression also tends to cause certain frequencies to become slightly distorted. This can sometimes cause audible artifacts which need to be addressed with narrow notch EQing.

To further complicate matters, there is a phenomena called Apparent Volume. This involves the way our hearing is more sensitive at a certain range of frequencies, (in the mid range to upper mid.) If one of your songs happens to contain more of those frequencies it will "seem" louder than an adjacent song with less mid range notes.

This is why Massive Master has said to do what the songs tell you to do. These loudness judgments must all be made on a case-by-case basis. To a mastering engineer, it becomes an *art* more so than a science.

Hope this helps.
 
I don't really understand this mastering art. I mean, I've got a rough idea of what it involves but when I mix something, I can't think what else I would need to do to it. When I put down a group of songs on a CD, I can pretty much match their volume from memory and the finished product ends up sounding just fine. I've tried a limiter and I've tried EQ and I've tried both - and I cannot hear any difference between the effects of EQ and compression. In any case, I prefer the sound without any of it. So if mastering is about applying limiters and EQ and I don't like limiters and EQ - what would my mastering stage involve, exactly?

I suspect I am missing something...

What I'd like to know is, is it normal to normalize? Despite what MM says. I've found many things don't need it, but some of my kick drums certainly do, since they sound too quiet otherwise.

So if we were to take this as a science, when would it be right to normalize?

Dr. V
 
i think i misunderstood the question. But like massive said who says they all have to be the same level.
 
RawDepth said:
Normalizing raises the volume uniformly to a given percentage point (100% is the absolute ceiling or 0dB.) It is not very effective for setting all songs at the same volume. While it brings up the entire waveform as a whole, it stops when the highest peak in the song reaches that target point. If one of your songs happens to have one out-of-control peak this will prevent the song from being pushed any louder.

The next consideration is to reduce the peaks before pushing up the volume. This is done with compression, however, reducing peaks means reducing song dynamics. This is often undesirable because the precious dynamic range has already been reduced while recording due to the limitations of today's digital audio gear. It takes away from the artistic feel and power that musicians rely upon when playing the song.

Compression also tends to cause certain frequencies to become slightly distorted. This can sometimes cause audible artifacts which need to be addressed with narrow notch EQing.

To further complicate matters, there is a phenomena called Apparent Volume. This involves the way our hearing is more sensitive at a certain range of frequencies, (in the mid range to upper mid.) If one of your songs happens to contain more of those frequencies it will "seem" louder than an adjacent song with less mid range notes.

This is why Massive Master has said to do what the songs tell you to do. These loudness judgments must all be made on a case-by-case basis. To a mastering engineer, it becomes an *art* more so than a science.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Nicely put.
Thanks,
Scott.
 
Actually, your mixes are already pretty damn good. But, a great mastering engineer can make them better. For example, a slight touch of reverb overall will lock in a little bigger space, making the mix more cohesive, without sounding so "in your face".

A good ME will also probably tell you to go back to your mixes and lower the lead vocal about 2 dB on "Eastern Kentucky" and "Hard Roe To Hoe". They might add a touch of high end EQ to make your songs "sparkle" a little bit more.

Yes, it's all subjective, but a good ME will understand what you're trying to achieve and help you get there. Plus, they have tools, ears, and experience from doing just this stuff - day in, day out, for years.

The instrumental balance on all your songs and the recording is excellent, but the lead vocal levels on some songs need to be addressed. You're already pretty close; a good mastering engineer can just get you a lot closer.
 
What I'd like to know is, is it normal to normalize? Despite what MM says. I've found many things don't need it, but some of my kick drums certainly do, since they sound too quiet otherwise.
Click to expand...
(A) Normalization is simply a "lazy" way to add gain (and worse, without actually listening to it - It's simply picking an arbitrary destination. If you need something a dB or two louder, apply a dB or two of gain.

(B) Normalizing a single element - ANY single element of a mix - GUARANTEES that the mix will clip if there is more than [that element + anything]. Especially something like a kick... Can't even imagine it.

Start doing things for the sake of volume at the wrong stage and it's almost assured to prevent you from attaining it at the right stage (not that 'volume' should be the driving factor behind any mix - Although gobs of headroom at every possible stage should be very high on the priority list...).
 
Massive Master said:
(A) Normalization is simply a "lazy" way to add gain (and worse, without actually listening to it - It's simply picking an arbitrary destination. If you need something a dB or two louder, apply a dB or two of gain.

(B) Normalizing a single element - ANY single element of a mix - GUARANTEES that the mix will clip if there is more than [that element + anything]. Especially something like a kick... Can't even imagine it.

Start doing things for the sake of volume at the wrong stage and it's almost assured to prevent you from attaining it at the right stage (not that 'volume' should be the driving factor behind any mix - Although gobs of headroom at every possible stage should be very high on the priority list...).
Click to expand...

Thanks, MM. Message read and understood.

Dr. V
 
RawDepth said:
Normalizing raises the volume uniformly to a given percentage point (100% is the absolute ceiling or 0dB.) It is not very effective for setting all songs at the same volume. While it brings up the entire waveform as a whole, it stops when the highest peak in the song reaches that target point. If one of your songs happens to have one out-of-control peak this will prevent the song from being pushed any louder.

The next consideration is to reduce the peaks before pushing up the volume. This is done with compression, however, reducing peaks means reducing song dynamics. This is often undesirable because the precious dynamic range has already been reduced while recording due to the limitations of today's digital audio gear. It takes away from the artistic feel and power that musicians rely upon when playing the song.

Compression also tends to cause certain frequencies to become slightly distorted. This can sometimes cause audible artifacts which need to be addressed with narrow notch EQing.

To further complicate matters, there is a phenomena called Apparent Volume. This involves the way our hearing is more sensitive at a certain range of frequencies, (in the mid range to upper mid.) If one of your songs happens to contain more of those frequencies it will "seem" louder than an adjacent song with less mid range notes.

This is why Massive Master has said to do what the songs tell you to do. These loudness judgments must all be made on a case-by-case basis. To a mastering engineer, it becomes an *art* more so than a science.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

This helps me. Thanks. I guess what I need the most of is PATIENCE then a place to ask questions (thanks homerecording.com) And the bit you said about compression..I know exactly what you are talking about "Compression also tends to cause certain frequencies to become slightly distorted." I was beginning to think that compression was the devil. Thanks for the narrow notch EQing tip. Is notch EQing and a notch filter the same thing?
 
Well, I guess I didn't really mean distorted. Perhaps "exaggerated" would have been a better choice of words.

Compression raises low lying subtle nuances in the voice to a much more noticeable level. Every syllable comes out louder, fuller, and stronger. Breath noise is even pushed forward. This works well for making lyrics more intelligible, however, it has some negative effects as well. Things like the letter "S" can end up sounding like a harsh lisp. Many people find that using a de-esser after compression fixes this ugly sound. (A de-esser is basically a narrow notch filter targeting somewhere around 5000 or 6000 Hz.) You can do the same thing with an EQ if it offers a high quality band width or Q. You would want to make that notch as narrow as possible so it doesn't change the character of the voice much if any.
 
Hmmm, I guess my post wasn't very helpful. Oh, well, I tried.
 
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