Mastering of Front/Back image

[fakeness]

Hey guys
There is an interesting issue about Front and Back mixing.

I realize that usually Professional Rock mix bring almost everything to "front"
and Pop is like 60 front, 40 back
jazz is like 50- 50
classsical is 40 - 60
even though some say that , front / back is only about the different of louder and quieter
but there is also something else that caused the front and back image too...
such as Reverb/ delay, surround , chours, all these effects can caused the sound become blur, which sounds in the back rather than front

There is a plug-in called " Stereo Expender" which allow you to compress the image more like a "mono front" or a "wider-stereo back" image...that is sort of what i used to push the image front or back while mastering....

ANY OTHER way to "edit" the front/back image ?

 

[Fire Dome]

i have absolutley no idea what you mean but i am intrigued(spl?).

Could you elaborate more on what you mean?

dave

 

[fakeness]

Ok...

ok what i mean is

in recording, there are 4 positions: Right, Left, Front Back
In stereo, mostly we only hear right and left

front is like: talk right near ur ears
back is like: talk far far away
that's the easiest defination

 

[masteringhouse]

Hey guys
There is an interesting issue about Front and Back mixing.

I realize that usually Professional Rock mix bring almost everything to "front"
and Pop is like 60 front, 40 back
jazz is like 50- 50
classsical is 40 - 60
even though some say that , front / back is only about the different of louder and quieter
but there is also something else that caused the front and back image too...
such as Reverb/ delay, surround , chours, all these effects can caused the sound become blur, which sounds in the back rather than front

There is a plug-in called " Stereo Expender" which allow you to compress the image more like a "mono front" or a "wider-stereo back" image...that is sort of what i used to push the image front or back while mastering....

ANY OTHER way to "edit" the front/back image ?

The best way is to take care of it in the mix. Think about what sound does as it moves further away:

1. decreases in volume
2. higher frequencies get rolled-off
3. picks up a greater percentage of ambience as either early reflections and/or reverberation

Any combination of the above can make a track more "distant" and add a greater illusion of depth.

As far as using them in mastering, yes it's done usually with poorly mixed material that sounds too "centered". But the problem in doing this in mastering aside from signal degradation is that you are doing it to the entire mix rather than on the individual intruments where the effects should be.

Don't look to mastering as a band-aid for a bad mix, fix the mix.

 

[Halion]

Another thing that some people might not agree on, and is more of a feeling than it is a hearing this is timing. Sharp timing exactly on the beat sounds alot more direct and upfront to me, then sluggish timing. Try this:

2 sources: 1 short open hihat, 1 e-guitar funk-stab. One timed exactly on the beat, the other just a few ms later. Listen. Now swap. Listen again.

Works for me, but it's not gonna make you think "wow, how many miles away is that?"

 

[mattamatta]

I think he means mastering as in "mastering the technique of mixing in terms of front/back image", rather than "premastering of audio material".

Somebody had a quote somewhere from jimmy page that said "distance equals depth", and I think reading that was a significant influence in my current recording paradigm.

 

[Atterion]

Sometimes if I want a quick visual representation of front/back on a track, I'll setup a surround-panner on a stereo track, as you move the panner towards the rear channels, it provides a very simple volume/panning ratio automatically (As there no rear or center speakers to send to). Yes it is a blatant misuse of tools!!! Oh well!!! It works, I get the results I want. Try it!!! Especially useful when trying to place a lot of simultaneous vocals or orchestral parts (You can essentially, visually pan the parts as they might sit in a choir/orchestra for instance).

 

[traveen]

I've found it's always easier to do this right from the beginning rather than at the mixing stage, although it can be enhanced there.. Whoever mentioned "distance equals depth" is pretty close on the mark.

Move your mics away from what you want in the background, this will help right in the beginning. Then using the reverbs/delays etc you should be able to acheive what you want.