mastering - final steps?

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FALKEN

FALKEN

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assuming I have my eq, compression, limiting, stereo separation, etc. etc. exactly how I want it, what else do I need to do to my .wav files before sending them off to be replicated? is there a specific .wav format? obviously it has to be 44.1 16-bit, but is there any other stored data or anything else that needs to be done before replication? is there any free software that will add this stored data if necessary? one more question..does music software add a digital identifier to the .wav file?
 
What PQ editor are you using? That'll dictate where to go from there...

OTR - My advice - If you're not absolutely positively certain of what you're doing when it comes to RedBook specs, have someone who is write your disc. Especially if you're using a short-run duplicator.
 
Massive Master said:
What PQ editor are you using? That'll dictate where to go from there...

OTR - My advice - If you're not absolutely positively certain of what you're doing when it comes to RedBook specs, have someone who is write your disc. Especially if you're using a short-run duplicator.
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Massive - I do not get your lingo. what is PQ? and OTR? off the record?


no offense, but you told me I couldn't master it myself and I did. why would you tell me to have someone else burn my cdr? don't you think with a little help I would be capable of doing this? its home recording for crying out loud. I'm not going to have somebody else do it. why do you even hang out on this board if all you do is tell people "get it done professionally"?
 
I'm not saying to get it done professionally - I'm simply saying that if you're not absolutely certain that your software is writing to redbook specification, you're taking a chance of having a "bad batch" of CD's come back at you.

The main Q is: Do you have software that will write a RedBook audio disc?

Frame-accurate PQ editing and logging are key - A 150 frame pause before the start of the first track is also.

That's why I asked what software you're using - Some take care of the start, stop & pause points *almost* automatically. Others don't. I'd be glad to help, but we need to be on the same page.

Anyway - 3 editor/burning progs I can think of that are very good at this are Samplitude, CD Architect and WaveLab. I understand that there are a few consumer programs that burn to specs, but won't render a PQ sheet (which lists all the start, stop & pause times to the nearest frame). A lot of replicators won't touch a project without one. Error rates are another story. Any reputable replicator will check this for you. But if you're going with a "short-run" place that uses CD-R stock, they might not. They might not even check to see if there's any data on the disc.

PQ are disc subcodes. OTR was "Off the record."

I never tell anyone they can't master their own material - I strongly suggest against it. I don't master MY own mixes - But that's for another thread.

Anyway - Whatcha' working with?
 
cool,

I am glad you are going to try to help me.

I found a "short run" place that will replicate real cd's. it was recommended on this board - they'll do 300 color silk-screened in white paper sleeves with the plastic window for about 350. sounds pretty decent for a demo. but I don't want to use their "mastering service" so I gotta figure out all the stuff myself.

I seriously doubt that I have any software that will burn a redbook cd. I would consider purchasing software to do it though. of course free would be better - there might be red-book complient burning software on download.com for free.

[edit- this: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/708081/ looks reasonable]

I've been working with 10 songs but I think I am only going to send about 4 to be replicated for the demo. they're about 1:15 each so thats like a 5 minute demo. I was hoping that maybe the place would take a data disc and then I'm done?? or even an upload. why would I worry so much about getting good replications If I am replicating a CDR in the first place? that doesn't seem to make sense. it seems like I would have to send them data.

so, can you please explain this stuff, it sounds important:

"Frame-accurate PQ editing and logging are key"

"Some take care of the start, stop & pause points *almost* automatically"

"I understand that there are a few consumer programs that burn to specs, but won't render a PQ sheet (which lists all the start, stop & pause times to the nearest frame)" is this just a paper sheet?

"PQ are disc subcodes." do I need anything special for this?

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I guess there is a lot more to it than I thought.
 
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WaveLab Essentials - I never used it, but I would imagine it's just WaveLab without all the bells and whistles. If that's the case, it should work fine.

There is a bit of a learning curve... Even with WL's "Wizards" so keep that manual close.

Frame accurate editing is simply being able to place audio files and start/stop/pause points along a time line with frame accuracy (1 CDA second = 75 frames).

In WaveLab, here's what I would suggest - Open each sound file individually and crop the heads & tails leaving 12-15 blank frames at the head of each file. A lot of CD players will "cut off" the first several frames, so this is just a "play it safe" move. You're only looking at less than a fifth of a second, so the audio will still be in the "hit go and it starts" window.

The PW log is the "paper" version of the editor - It's a verification of sorts. Many replicators won't touch a project without one. WaveLab prints them. I would imagine WLE should also. Include it with your project.

WL has a "Create Basic CD" (or something similarly named) function that can take your files and throw them together as a CD project. There are a lot of parameters here - Pre and post pauses, head pause, spacing between stop & start points, Silence before first track, silence after each track, silence after last track, etc. All measured in CD frames. If you have 12 frames at the head of every track, you'll want to set the silence before first track and silence before any track to zero.

The neat thing is that with a Basic project, you can normally convert that into an audio montage, which will allow you much more flexibility AND a visual representation - But there are SO many parameters on every little thing, I'm going to stop here and suggest a good read through the manual. It'd take hours to go over everything, and I'd probably forget something immensely important.
 
weirdness. I find it hard to believe the replicator won't do all of this for me. Is this really considered part of the "mastering" process?

also..I would really like to know the answers to these two questions:

1. if duplicated CD-Rs are so bad, why am I sending an audio redbook CD-R to be replicated?

2. will audio software leave its own imprint of sorts on the .wav files after they are replicated? I.e., is there a way to tell what program created the music?
 
This IS the mastering process - The creation of the production master. Writing a compliant and clean** disc is the absolute most important and quintessential part of the process. It's the foundation itself. The "audio sweetening" that goes along with it is secondary by nature.

"Back in the day" (which was really only 10 or 15 years ago at most) the whole point of the mastering process was to create the highest quality production master possible while actually changing the audio as *little* as possible.

Granted, this is when a decent drive ran at 2X and cost $2500... And a blank CD-R would cost more than dinner and a movie - which you would have to give up if you burned a coster. But I digress...

But that's still why the highest quality drive, media, writing software and error-checking** are so important.

The use of CD-R's as production masters is relatively new also - DDP/Exabyte/PCM 1630 U-Matics were the standard. But now that the technology has become so much less expensive (and more reliable), CD-R has somewhat become the standard. Although DDP is still used also. 1630's have sort of fallen away... And CD-R's aren't bad - At least quality CD-R's aren't bad... They are susceptible to damage and their longevity is in question, but quality vs. dollars, they're a great media.

And for the most part, I don't think the editor should/would leave any sort of indication.

** http://www.massivemastering.com/html/disc_errors.html

If you're not checking yourself (it's part of the specs of a compliant disc) make sure the plant is - A lot of short-run places don't. "We just copied what you sent us" is the norm at some places.
 
Good info, John. might have saved me 300 coasters. I'll call up the place and see what they say about it. When did places stop taking data?
 
Massive Master said:
What PQ editor are you using? That'll dictate where to go from there...

OTR - My advice - If you're not absolutely positively certain of what you're doing when it comes to RedBook specs, have someone who is write your disc. Especially if you're using a short-run duplicator.
Click to expand...

you're making fun of me right?? a "PQ" editor?
 
FALKEN said:
you're making fun of me right?? a "PQ" editor?
Click to expand...

Geez, Falken - these are lifted directly from a google search results page:

... days) are standalone PQ editors that work in conjunction with your audio
editor, and some things like Sonic Solutions have the PQ editor built into the ...

A data file from a PQ-editor can be used as input. ... Launching an editor to
edit the .DTA files; Launching the PQ editor; ‘I’: means various password ...

Using a similar interface to the familiar SADiE Red Book PQ editor, a dialogue
window will allow all of the Super Audio CD text and ancillary data to be ...
 
From a rec.audio newsgroup FAQ:

"PQ editing refers to editing the part of the subcode that contains info like track start IDs and end IDs, indexes, ISRC codes (stands for "International Standard Recording Code" and contains owner of the copyright, release #, record label...), emphasis, copy protection. It refers to the bits of the digital word (P & Q) that contain this info. You need to know about the red book spec and keep everything within it as far as the offset for the first track, minimum track length, maximum number of indexes or tracks per disc."

G.
 
oh ok haha. The replicator's site said this:

"Our mastering department will make sure your CD pre-master is right and minds its P's & Q's. You won't have to worry about getting 500 silver drink coasters. "

..and I thought John might have been having a little joke on me.

Do you all do this process yourself? any more input? I find it hard to believe that nobody else on hr.com has gone through this process?
 
FALKEN said:
Do you all do this process yourself? any more input? I find it hard to believe that nobody else on hr.com has gone through this process?
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I can only answer for myself, and John might not completly agree with everything, but here's where I usually delineate it (more or less):

If someeone is just asking me to do a mix & master for "homemade" CD-R burning and replication, I'll make the "pre-master" CD myself using CD Architect (which can handle most of the redbook details when you know the basics) and then let them make the replicants on whatever prosumer duplicator they wish. The same if their making something for personal use or for streamin, MP3 or other computer-based distribution.

If someone is making an "indie release CD" for professional CD duplication, then I'll recommend that they let me mix, but then I'll pass (or recommed passing) on the whole mastering process including engineering the pre-master recordings and buring the pre-master and safety CDs to a pro mastering house such as John's, and let them not only mind the Ps and Qs but also dot all the I's and cross all the Ts. :)

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I can only answer for myself, and John might not completly agree with everything, but here's where I usually delineate it (more or less):
Click to expand...

No, that all pretty much makes sense. And CD Architect is a great program for CD authoring - I don't know about the newer versions, but older ones (4.X) were VERY Picky about starting the burn - Off by one frame? No burn. Start & stop points out of order? No burn.

Wavelab has some sort of "checking" wizard, but if you don't run it, it'll pretty much let you burn anything.
 
Massive Master said:
CD Architect is a great program for CD authoring - I don't know about the newer versions, but older ones (4.X) were VERY Picky about starting the burn - Off by one frame? No burn. Start & stop points out of order? No burn.
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I'm not fully up-to-date on the versions, I don't think; I'm running v5.0 and have had no real reason to update it if there's a 6 because 5 has been stable and done everything I've needed it to do thus far. But yeah, 5 has an option in it's Preferences menu setup called "Use strict Redbook checking" or something to that effect. This option is the default setting for CD A 5.0.

G.
 
While there's a lot to know if you are working with subcode data and cutting masters everyday, it's really very simple (and quite easy) with modern PQ editors. Most any modern 'redbook capable' software can rather painlessly cut a master. Of course, this will include cutting the disc DAO (disc at once) rather than TAO (track at once) as TAO burners shut the laser down between tracks, resulting in huge spikes of 'errors' beteen tracks and generally causing the master to be rejected.

Though we include them (along with error reports and old school 1630-style noise notations from QC), most modern plants do not require PQ sheets anymore. If you are having CDRs made, it is completely unnecessary, as they will simply copy your disc in a standalone copier. If you are manufacturing, it may be necessary, but again, I think most any system can generate a PQ log, and there's absolutely no reason you cannot do it by hand (though it may be tedious, it's easy enough). I could email you an example of a PQ sheet from Sequoia or Sadie if needed.

The big thing you want to be sure of, aside from making sure the ID's are where you want them, is that there are no noises and such that you have missed or were (somehow) included on your master. This is why all mastering houses worth their salt QC every master through headphones as one of their QC steps (and the primary reason production masters are expensive). Yes, it's tedious, but it's worth an hour or so of your time to include you don't throw your money away.

About the only thing you can easily do without the right equipment is check for errors. But there is good news - for about $70 you can buy yourself a Plextor Premium drive that comes with free software called 'PlexTools' - this software is what many mastering houses use (including here at Euphonic) to check your basic BLER, C1, C2, and CU rates. Worth the (minor) expense, imo, plus it's a great drive.

As for accceptable error rates, the redbook max for BLER (an average over 10 seconds, iirc) is 220 C1/sec. We won't ship any discs (refs or masters) that contain any C2's or CU's. Better safe than sorry.

You can do this yourself, but you must proceed cautiously, minding the details. It's not hard. Honestly, most any disc cut on a modern burner will work fine for manufacturing or replication.

Finally, if it's too difficult to handle, or simply too much to worry about, most reputable mastering houses will take your audio and generate a production master for you, for a nominal fee.

Best of luck!
 
FALKEN said:
I found a "short run" place that will replicate real cd's. it was recommended on this board - they'll do 300 color silk-screened in white paper sleeves with the plastic window for about 350.
Click to expand...

Got a link?

Thanks,

tv
 
Dave Davis (mastering guy at QCA) knows what he's doing. You'll be fine there. Tell him I said 'hi'...
 
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