Master of Snippets

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BenignVanilla

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Songwriting...its a joy and a pain of mine. I rarely sit down and say, "OK...I am going to write this..." More often than not, an idea will fall out of the sky for me. Quite often, I can nail verse and a chorus, and hook pretty easily...but finishing...oy...finishing...

I have so many songs that are 30 seconds long because I can't finish them...how do you guys/gals get past that hurdle?
 
I lean my guitar up against the wall and remind myself that I'm not a songwriter, not a musician, I'm not well versed in hooks, verses or choruses and that ideas don't come to me like I'm some mythical, magical sage or conduit.

I just lean it up and walk away. Lean it up and walk away.

In other words, when it gets too hard, I just give up.
 
I say if that is how long your songs are, then that is great! There are no rules on the thing called art. Check out Gwen Davis's site below. She is an autistic savant that I record with. Her songs rarely go more than 60 seconds. It turns her on. That is all that really matters. Let go of what the world thinks and let your gift shine! Walter

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=806114
 
Like what you are both doing there Walter.

I'm not American. Is that thick accent southern or NY?

How does she choose what music to melody with?

I like it. That's good stuff you're doing there Walt.
 
When she sings the word 'tears' in Tears in the Snow, her voice is so clear that it supercedes and is sweeter than your Gibson guitar.
She actually starts to sing. The notes go up and sustain, but it's like she's shy to do it. Nice voice.
 
BenignVanilla said:
Songwriting...its a joy and a pain of mine. I rarely sit down and say, "OK...I am going to write this..." More often than not, an idea will fall out of the sky for me. Quite often, I can nail verse and a chorus, and hook pretty easily...but finishing...oy...finishing...

I have so many songs that are 30 seconds long because I can't finish them...how do you guys/gals get past that hurdle?
Click to expand...

Find someone who is in the same boat and get them to write the other half? You'll be surprised how many folks are in the same boat!

But be wary of sinking feelings! ;-)

I have some songs that remain incomplete after 40 years! :D

Like Walt says... it's art!

Ars longa, vita brevis???

Here's a tip though: you might like to consider that songwriting is also a craft, and if you use the 'craft skills' rather than the 'art gift', then ANY song can be 'finished' to ANY deadline!

;-)
 
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BenignVanilla said:
Songwriting...its a joy and a pain of mine. I rarely sit down and say, "OK...I am going to write this..." More often than not, an idea will fall out of the sky for me. Quite often, I can nail verse and a chorus, and hook pretty easily...but finishing...oy...finishing...

I have so many songs that are 30 seconds long because I can't finish them...how do you guys/gals get past that hurdle?
Click to expand...

One trick is repetition. Obviously the chorus is going to repeat but you can use repetition in the verse as well. End every verse with the same line or two and just vary the first few lines.
The cool thing about this is you can make the exact same words mean something completely different by the end of the song by changing the context.

You can also just stretch the song out by repeating lines and there isn't a damn thing wrong with a hey hey hey na na na yeah yeah yeah ohoooooooo la la la every once in a while.:D


Does this sound familiar? Na na na na / na na na na / hey hey hey / goodbye
That's a one word chorus. Everybody knows that song.;)
 
nzausrec said:
Like what you are both doing there Walter.

I'm not American. Is that thick accent southern or NY?

How does she choose what music to melody with?

I like it. That's good stuff you're doing there Walt.
Click to expand...

Thanks for checking Gwen's music out! She wants to do all her songs fast. She has no opinion what beat I play. I just start out a beat and she comes in. We do everything in one take. She gets off on having the headphones on and a mic in front her. She has no concern with the song once it is done. If I play it for someone in our classroom she often tries to turn it off. She won't sign her name either. She types it out in the smallest font, cuts it out and tapes it to her cds when someone asks for an autograph.

She is born and raised right here in Ohio. Her voice is strange sounding compared to most of us, like many autistic savants. She has some kind of natural vibrato/reverb to it. I have suggested she practice the words to her songs, but she won't do it, so I let it go. She writes them and never looks at them until we are in the studio. I don't try and shape Gwen into anything. I want to capture her as she wants to sound. What the world thinks is of no concern. She is a real inspiration to me to keep on with how I do music. Anyone who is struggling with how their voice sounds, how their songs are written, should listen to Gwen. Art is about letting the inner you come out unfiltered. Sadly I see very little of this in music and art. Most of us get various degrees of concern with what the world will think of our stuff. Take care. Walter

Gwens music:

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=806114
 
I have also checked out Gwen's stuff, guys. That 'tears in the snow' is a beautiful set of words.

P.S. Don't forget Walt, that when I come over to Nashville to sign my first song deal, I'll be coming round to your studio "sure as eggs, is eggs!!"

What a wonderful thing it is that you do!

I get a good feeling every time I hear you play!

Frankie xxx :)
 
BenignVanilla said:
Songwriting...its a joy and a pain of mine. I rarely sit down and say, "OK...I am going to write this..." More often than not, an idea will fall out of the sky for me. Quite often, I can nail verse and a chorus, and hook pretty easily...but finishing...oy...finishing...

I have so many songs that are 30 seconds long because I can't finish them...how do you guys/gals get past that hurdle?
Click to expand...

I have the same problem sometimes but mine normally run about a minute and a half. I'm okay with it - I think I'll just burn a CD-R of my stuff that runs 30 minutes, which would contain...20 songs, if my math is correct. Didn't Elvis Costello once do an album of songs that were only like 2 mins. long or so? I don't know if this will help you or not but it's a positive way of looking at the situation.
 
With some songs it just comes naturally but for the ones I have trouble with I have a friend co write.
 
Ricklh said:
I have the same problem sometimes but mine normally run about a minute and a half. I'm okay with it - I think I'll just burn a CD-R of my stuff that runs 30 minutes, which would contain...20 songs, if my math is correct. Didn't Elvis Costello once do an album of songs that were only like 2 mins. long or so? I don't know if this will help you or not but it's a positive way of looking at the situation.
Click to expand...

Well then...just double the first verse and chorus at the end, and you have a four minute song. :)

Song length...I don't pay too much attention to it. Most of my songs come out at the 4-4:30 mark, but I have some that run 2-3, and some that run 8-10.
 
Happens to me all the time

First, never throw away those snippets. Put them on the back burner and let them simmer. You never know when you might need them.

I don't really have a good answer for how to turn an inspired chorus or hook into a full song, but here's what I try do. I usually put away my guitar, or step away from the piano. Writing with an instrument is great when things are flowing, but when I get stuck they can be part of the problem. Then I sit down and start to write out ideas for the song. I pay no attention to rhyme or meter. I just write out ideas. Some times I'll write paragraphs. More like writing an essay than a song. I'll make lists of emotions associated with the song. I just try to increase the pool from which i can draw from.

Other times I'll look for random objects and force myself to make some kind of association with that object to the song. The point is not to get a verse out of it, but to stimulate your creativity. The more bizarre the object the more fruitfull the excercise.

Sometimes this kind of stuff helps. Other times the snippets just stay on the back burner waiting for the rest of the meal to arrive so they can be served.
 
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