garww
New member
I'm just the sort that if you need left & right, might as well MIC stereo. One can mix that as they please. Plus, he'll get some room training
Making the most of a two channel interface
- Thread starter oildrops
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I'm just the sort that if you need left & right, might as well MIC stereo. One can mix that as they please. Plus, he'll get some room training
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
This comes up so often, and it is always the same answer. You either compromise the sounds you capture AND your ability to manipulate/process/effect them, or you compromise your "principles" and record the two separately.
Honestly, I think that way too many people are way too caught up in the belief that they have to play and sing at the same time in order to get the right "feel". The truth is that, while it takes some practice, it's not actually all that hard. In fact, you almost have to get a better performance from each track when you can actually focus on doing that one thing without worrying about the other thing at the same time.
I often record things where what I'm playing on guitar does kind of depend on what I'm doing on vox, and there is often some improvisation and unusual timings involved. What I do is record a scratch track doing both at the same time, and then go back and do the individual "keeper" tracks based on that reference.
Basically, stop being so precious and pretentious about the process. Stop telling yourself you can't do it and learn to do it. Once you gain some confidence, you will have better chance of better results.
Honestly, I think that way too many people are way too caught up in the belief that they have to play and sing at the same time in order to get the right "feel". The truth is that, while it takes some practice, it's not actually all that hard. In fact, you almost have to get a better performance from each track when you can actually focus on doing that one thing without worrying about the other thing at the same time.
I often record things where what I'm playing on guitar does kind of depend on what I'm doing on vox, and there is often some improvisation and unusual timings involved. What I do is record a scratch track doing both at the same time, and then go back and do the individual "keeper" tracks based on that reference.
Basically, stop being so precious and pretentious about the process. Stop telling yourself you can't do it and learn to do it. Once you gain some confidence, you will have better chance of better results.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
Honestly, in a decent room with a good performer, it could turn out really nice with a stereo pair just in the right place to capture it as a whole. Leaves very little room for fixing or even much sweetening, and is not what the OP seems to want either.
IF the goal is separation, AND you have to play both at once, THEN all you can do is move the mics til you get the best you can get. You can ask people where they think you should put the mics, but that can only get you so far. At some point you just have to move the mics and listen and either accept the compromises or...
Yep. AFTER i gave my advice. Not before, so how should i know?
When i gave my advice he only talked about panning slightly which is not about splitting stereo to double mono.
And i wasn't the only one with that advice to record seperate on 2 tracks. See post #2.
So why then only my advice is discussed as foolish? Please explain.
But if good and well meanth advices are turned into foolish discussions like this i take my conciderations and will shut op.
garww
New member
I mean multi-tracking as piece work as opposed to John Barlycorn on the Stevie Winwood toob channel : )
Steve Winwood // Traffic - John Barleycorn (Must Die) - YouTube
Steve Winwood // Traffic - John Barleycorn (Must Die) - YouTube
Steenamaroo
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Sounds like he's already doing that, 42low.
It's a stretch and a guess, but sounds like advice you'd give to someone who has a hardware mixer and a computer sound card? That's the only way I can make it fit.
Oildrops - "since the vocal mic picks up guitar and becomes thin".....
Is your question really about handling phase issues when recording vocal and guitar simultaneously?
If so, whilst tracking guitar and vocal simultaneously on separate tracks, try one of these three things.
Get both mics as close to their source as possible to minimise bleed.
Get both mics equally distance from each source. This will increase bleed but it will be less problematic, phase wise.
Get one mic super close(vocal?) and the other so far away that phase isn't an issue. This will greatly increase ambience on guitar and vocal bleed into guitar mic, but reduce phase issues greatly.
Instinctively a lot of people think bleed is bad. It really isn't if the performance is good and the room is good.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
It's evident from his first post that he's recording to two separate tracks and panning afterward in the DAW. With a typical two-channel interface you can't pan on the way in. The two inputs stay separate until you pan them to the output in the DAW. Applying eq to only one track means he had two separate tracks rather than one stereo track.
The suggestion in post 2 to record separately means to record the guitar first, then record the vocal second.
As i don't know his alesis io2 express and i only read he panned slightly to me it read like he recorded one track.
I want to thank Steenmaroo for his friendly attention to that. That could be given right away by others instead of humiliating me i have to learn how to record.
You can't tell if or what i have to learn garww, as you don't know my history and experience with music. You can't attack me totally me on some minor things i don't know. It is so childish to attack one on such minor things, which i could easily do more than done to me if i wished. But i don't while i react with respect at people.
In core my advice was correct so nothing to learn, although slighly misplaced by some haziness at my side (yeah, i confess. I'm man enough to do so).
To bad that some (to many IMO and repeatedly) forget i only tried to help in a friendly way and tone, with this kind of reactions as result.
This was the second time. This will not happen a third time. I will shut up definitely from now on.
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Steenamaroo
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I didn't say that ^^^^^
Edit: Nevermind - I fixed your quote names.
Edit: Nevermind - I fixed your quote names.
Steenamaroo
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This is true, although I'm not sure principles is the best word.
Maybe preference, knowledge from experience....Something like that.
This is not necessarily true. I know several people who are just great live performers and that's what should be captured.
Asking them to track guitar then vocal later would work fine, but it would take a lot away from what they do.
On the other hand, I know plenty of people who perform much better when separating the two.
Both are valid and neither is pretentious, unless the reasoning behind the decision is flawed.
Then again, even if it is a matter of principle for someone, it's not that different relentlessly banging on about using real amps or doing everything in one take.
Fortunately, no one does that.
ashcat_lt
Well-known member
No. I said what they said you said, and it was actually somebody else said what they said I said.
I frankly don't give a fuck what you do. You seem to be chaffing at the limitations of the approach you yourself have chosen. If it was working for you, we wouldn't be here, would we?
Steenamaroo
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I said what he said you said.
I'll let you be in my dream if I can be in yours. Bob Dylan said that.
Sorry for misquoting in my previous post. Thanks for the helpful tips all. Seems like on most forums, some people always aggressively jump into unneeded judgment and debate. I agree, it's a compromise. Never said it wasn't, but don't try to force your own priorities onto others by condescension.
I'm glad there are people here who understand why someone would track vocals and an instrument at the same time. It's not really up for debate to me, and wasn't my question to begin with. Looking forward to gaining more knowledge here as my interest in recording progresses. Some great ideas were presented here.
I am going to be picking up an SM7b and preamp soon which will hopefully serve as my vocal mic. Then I will use the AT2020 on guitar and SM7b on my voice. I have been splitting the guitar track and EQing one side for vocal bleed to cut through, and adding a full mix slapback delay for subtle vocal thickener.
I'm glad there are people here who understand why someone would track vocals and an instrument at the same time. It's not really up for debate to me, and wasn't my question to begin with. Looking forward to gaining more knowledge here as my interest in recording progresses. Some great ideas were presented here.
I am going to be picking up an SM7b and preamp soon which will hopefully serve as my vocal mic. Then I will use the AT2020 on guitar and SM7b on my voice. I have been splitting the guitar track and EQing one side for vocal bleed to cut through, and adding a full mix slapback delay for subtle vocal thickener.
For one, when bands, electric, acoustic solo/or other come in, far be it for me to dictate how they record, 'overdub style or 'live as is usually the case here. Shure, we discus the ins and outs +'s and minuses. But then we proceed, applying and working out the solutions available that fit.
Any of us, doing our own thing or otherwise, will run into these +'s and minuses and sort it out.
Any of us, doing our own thing or otherwise, will run into these +'s and minuses and sort it out.
I suppose you don't point at me with this one, as i didn't start some nasty discussion. And i wasn't forcing anyone and even supported you on playing vocals w/ guitar in one session.
Sorry for my part in the duscussion were i reacted on a personal attack about nothing (i only overread you already were recording those o seperate tracks).