making drums "further back" in the mix/soundfield

  • Thread starter Thread starter wes480
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wes480

wes480

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I think i am using too wide a stereo spread on most of my instruments...

like, having the drums so upfront, takes away the real punch from them.

i don't think putting the mics farther back will help though..because i won't get as good of a sound (more room noise)...

i read a review of the great river mp2nv that said using it or other high end preamps kind of got this result..that confused me at the time, but now it's starting to make sense. becuase it seems like my recordings sound "closer" than a lot of pro recordings...but at the same time not as intimate.

maybe someone can offer some ideas/say this clearer than i can?
 
wes480 said:
i don't think putting the mics farther back will help though..because i won't get as good of a sound (more room noise)...
Click to expand...

Then maybe it's time to invest in room treatment rather than a $2K mic pre.
 
like chessrock said, if the rooms an issue...

if its really a MIX issue though, try this experiment:

put a stereo up playing some cd you know. stand right in front of it, listen

now walk far away but with direct site of it and listen

note the subtle and not so subtle dynamic and tone changes as you walk away and just think for a while about what kind of settings it would take to get those...usually a LOT of hi pass filtering, multiband compression with a slllooooowwww attack on the low end and a very slllloooowwww release on th hi end, and maybe even some reverb
 
chess - yes i understand what you are saying.

a.) i'm not thinking about buying the pre...but, i heard similar things about the RNP...so, i'm kind of wondering...i will dig up the review i was reading..so you can see if you guys can interpret it better than i.

b.) granted, my room isn't great..but, it is treated. i didn't mean "noise", but..just, natural ambience of the room. even if that is in a lot of cases a good thing, not always what you want.

the link i am talking about is this review of higher end preamps...this author thinks the difference is in the spacial depth etc.

http://www.digitalprosound.com/2002/11_nov/features/pre_ornot.htm

what i am really reffering to would be:

<i>"Imagine the stereofield being the size of a dollar. That guitar through a cheap mic pre might take up the size of a quarter. So, how many quarters could you lay on a dollar before you started running out of room? Not even 18. Try it yourself.

On that same dollar, how many heads from a straightpin could you fit? Probably a couple of hundred.

When you listen to an individual acoustic guitar track that's well-miked running through a really high-quality preamp — the sound of the guitar will take up about as much space as the head on a pin."</i>

how much truth do you think there is in that - and do you think that would make a big difference in drum recording as well as acoustic guitars?

i feel like my tracking techniques are solid, and i get a good sound...but i feel what he is saying in the article - even though i've never had a high end mic pre or used one. It does seem like my tracks take up a BIG space...but don't neccessarily sound that BIG.

Pipeline - you think most of these issues are more mix issues and not tracking issues?

Sorry guys, that's what i was trying to ask the first time. Thanks for the info.
 
wes480 said:
how much truth do you think there is in that - and do you think that would make a big difference in drum recording as well as acoustic guitars?
Click to expand...

Although I really appreciate the things Dan contributes around here . . . I'm not sure how literally I'm prepared to take most of the things he says in his articles/reviews. Much of what he was discussing is in regards to very subtle nuances and effects that particular gear will have, much of which varies a great deal depending on the source, and is subjective for the most part. His explanations are very good, though, and I like his analogies.

My advice to anyone considering a high end mic pre for these reasons should first pay a visit to the MP3 clinic and have a good, hard listen to some of Darth Faders' work with Feableweiner and this new band he's hooked up with recently. Then, consider the fact that he's using almost exclusively Aphex pres on everything. And draw your own conclusions from there.

What I'm saying is that positioning your mics correctly, tuning your drums properly, using good, fresh heads, using the right kind of beater, and especially having a good drummer will go very far towards taking up a lot less space on that silver dollar. Using the right mic / preamp combo will help you out a little in that regard, comparatively.
 
going there now chess. i remember listening to "creed you suck" a while back.

hrmm, so taking up less space is one of the keys to a pro sound/mix. i've never even thought about this really until i read that article..

so it was at least a good thought stimulator.
 
Hey Wes, how are ya?

Regarding the quarters on a dollar thing, I don't get it. Maybe what he means is, as soon as you collect up enough quarters and dollars, you can buy a good pre.

Hope this helps,
Macle
 
hey macle,

i'm doing alright...just been busy with school and such. but, that's going well.

you guys been up to anything lately? havn't seen you posting on the board much lately...you always were one to just post the tunes though eh?

heh, i kind of DO understand what he is talking about with the dollar bill thing, i agree with chess though....that the room is a very small part of it.

chess - what is your opinion on those Aphex pres? say, the 207 vs. RNP?
 
macle - ever heard of Fleming and John?

I was reading an interview with John, he reminds me a lot of you - his take on recording, gear coming second, does a lot of the instrumentation and such...

you should check out their stuff, only the girl sings (really) though.

here's the interview, pretty interesting...if you listen to a few of their tunes.

http://members.aol.com/toomuchjoy/flemnjohnint.html

i could see you giving about the same answers to these questions. heh
 
Hi Chessrock! The API is treating me very well, thank you. It sits there quietly, does it's preamping thing, I touch it's knobs occasionally, dust it off to show my appreciation, it's a symbiotic thing.

Hi Wes, glad school is going well. Things are going okay here, started back on that song I told you about, got sidetracked unfortunately cuz of the holidays. Yeah, I'm not much of a poster, just check in every once in awhile to see what's going on 'round here.

Never heard of Fleming and John. Good interview, sounds interesting, will have to download some of their stuff. They look like sisters in that photo! Just to bring this thread back around, funny he mentions that peavey tube pre, I was two seconds from getting that a while back before i got the API, a good deal, too, but there was no return on it (was a floor model), so I didn't go for it.

Macle
 
macle said:
They look like sisters in that photo!
Click to expand...

what, and you and maxine don't? hehe, jk. hope to see that new song of yours pop up soon.
 
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