Major newbie here

[AMTA]

So, I've got a lot of things already decided (computer, monitors, mics etc), except one thing: what sound card & mixer, or what "interface" to use (usb, firewire, etc).

I had never even heard of a mixer-less setup until I found this site a year ago. I don't even know how the hell you are supposed to plug a mic into those things. Take the Firepod for example; I looked at it and thought to myself, "Where the hell are the XLR inputs?"

When my band was recording, we just used a Behringer Eurodesk mixer plugged into a crappy Sound Blaster via one of those RCA+mini-in Y-cables. I thought that was the norm, but I see now that there are better options, or at least, what everyone here would consider "better".

Now that my band is done, all I'm left with is Live Sound stuff pretty much. I have a mixer, but it isn't really suitable for recording, so I just use it for practices. I am also left without the know-how to using these things to my full advantage, but that will come with time.

So, I see a lot of people doing the whole thing mixer-less. Is there an advantage? If it comes down to preference, I would much rather go with the mixer option. I like being able to have my hands on everything. So then the issue is picking a sound card and a mixer.

I've basically been thrust into this big world I know nothing about, and I'm trying my best to hang on and learn as much as I can (I read these forums a lot).

This is the sound card I was looking at: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile2496-main.html

And here is the mixer: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Mackie-CFX20-mkII-Mixer?sku=634271

I will be recording drums, vocals, guitar (through an amp), and bass (just plugged into the mixer). Trying to wade through all the information on here has been a daunting task. Figuring out which sound cards, mixers, monitors, recording software, mics, etc is a real headache.

 

[mattkw80]

Did you ever look at the M-Audio Project I/O ?

It's the "sound card" and the mixer all wrapped into 1.

It also has midi.


http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProjectMixIO-main.html


Check it out.

 

[AMTA]

No, I've never seen anything like that before. It looks interesting, but there doesn't appear to be that much in the way of EQ'ing. I know a lot of people like to mix ITB, but I feel more comfortable with a mixer when I'm recording drums.

Plus I didn't plan on having any firewire ports in the computer I'm building, though that can change if I end up needing/wanting them.

 

[mattkw80]

In this day in age, you must go firewire.


Also.... the EQ will be in your computer software. This device is not a standalone mixer.... it only controls software in the computer.

ie:
Adobe Audition
Pro Tools
Sonar
Garage Band
Logic

etc.

 

[AMTA]

In this day in age, you must go firewire.


Also.... the EQ will be in your computer software. This device is not a standalone mixer.... it only controls software in the computer.

ie:
Adobe Audition
Pro Tools
Sonar
Garage Band
Logic

etc.

Firewire is that important these days huh? Eh, I guess I can spring for it. I know I can EQ in the program (I'll be using Reaper btw); I just feel more comfortable with the "traditional" setup I guess. I was gonna go for Cubase, but I really don't need all that extra stuff. All I need is multi-tracking, and VST support.

Anyway, I'm all for learning new shit though, so I'll go for Firewire. Those mic inputs on the back of that thing you linked me to are XLR, correct? It's tough to see from the picture.

EDIT: On a second look, that's a bit more than I'm willing to spend right at this point. I'm just trying to get something decent. This will be something I look into down the road though.

I know this is an expensive hobby (and boy do I know that well), but I have to allocate some of my money for personal gear too (I'm eyeballing a specific new amp, and new guitar).

What are the advantages of going Firewire as opposed to the ole mixer/sound card setup?

Let's say I went with the mixer and sound card until I got the money for something like that, would the mixer and sound card even be worth having after I go Firewire?

 

[mattkw80]

Yes - it has 8 XLR OR 1/4" inputs. (Phantom Power too)

Firewire is important for fast data transfer, and especially so for 24-bit data transfer.

A firewire card will only cost you $20 to $60.

Might as well do this early.



What is your budget roughly ?

Firewire is that important these days huh? Eh, I guess I can spring for it. I know I can EQ in the program (I'll be using Reaper btw); I just feel more comfortable with the "traditional" setup I guess. I was gonna go for Cubase, but I really don't need all that extra stuff. All I need is multi-tracking, and VST support.

Anyway, I'm all for learning new shit though, so I'll go for Firewire. Those mic inputs on the back of that thing you linked me to are XLR, correct? It's tough to see from the picture.

 

[AMTA]

Budget? Well....so far I'm spending $1,300 on a new computer, a couple hundred on Drumkit From Hell Superior, $400 on monitors, and $500 on a really nice desk with rack space and everything.

Roughly, that's $2,600. I was only expecting on capping at $3k. I still want to have money for my new amp, guitar, and mics. Not to mention fixing my drum set.

I don't expect to have all the money right away, so I will be buying bit by bit, and doing crappy demos with the mixer and computer I have now until I have everything.

I guess you're right about springing for it now rather than later. I just find it hard to justify paying that much for something so tiny, and it's basically a half-mixer half-sound card.

So I'll go for it. Do you have any personal experience with it?

Man, my wallet is going to hate me. I'll keep feeding it money, only to take it out again (I don't really make a lot of money). Heh, oh well. I learned a long time ago that this is an expensive hobby.

 

[mattkw80]

Ouch, Ouch, Ouch... yeah, so much money.

It IS a very expensive hobby... and it NEVER seems to end.

I'll spare you my sad story for the most part, but I've got like, $20,000+ into this in the last 5 years.

(And I STILL suck)

Anyway.... "I just find it hard to justify paying that much for something so tiny, and it's basically a half-mixer half-sound card. "

I don't think it is tiny... actually the measurements place it as being kind of big. (20" by 18" )

My personal experience with it? I have one on order, and will be recieving it next week. I'm very excited, and hope I'm not dissappointed.

I've done alot of research, and a Pro Tools and M-Audio Projectmix I/O seem to be the best way for me to go.

I previously used a Boss Br1600 (loved it) and a Roland Vs2000 (didn't love it). But all in all..... I want to get back to recording on the computer.

Maybe you should wait until I get mine next wednesday, and I can tell you If I still think it's the best way to go.


Matt

Budget? Well....so far I'm spending $1,300 on a new computer, a couple hundred on Drumkit From Hell Superior, $400 on monitors, and $500 on a really nice desk with rack space and everything.

Roughly, that's $2,600. I was only expecting on capping at $3k. I still want to have money for my new amp, guitar, and mics. Not to mention fixing my drum set.

I don't expect to have all the money right away, so I will be buying bit by bit, and doing crappy demos with the mixer and computer I have now until I have everything.

I guess you're right about springing for it now rather than later. I just find it hard to justify paying that much for something so tiny, and it's basically a half-mixer half-sound card.

So I'll go for it. Do you have any personal experience with it?

Man, my wallet is going to hate me. I'll keep feeding it money, only to take it out again (I don't really make a lot of money). Heh, oh well. I learned a long time ago that this is an expensive hobby.

 

[AMTA]

Yeah just post in here with some impressions after you get it. Even if it doesn't turn out to be that great, there are other Firewire options out there.

I assume I could get a Firepod, and get a separate control surface, and it would kind of have the same effect. The only problem is that the Firepod doesn't have XLR, or at least I don't think. Damn it, I hate this.

I don't want to go through all that, so hopefully the ProjectMix turns out to be everything you hoped it would be.

I'm not even sure if Reaper is compatible with those types of control surfaces, or any for that matter. I'll have to look into it now. I don't see why it wouldn't be, but if it's not, then surely Sonar or Cubase would work with it. I'll figure all that out once I actually have the money to get all this stuff.

Right now, all this expensive equipment I am getting won't really be used to its full potential since I record in a garage with makeshift walls and insulation (though I'm sure it will help). The main thing is just getting good equipment that I can still use when I DO have a better space to work with (ie when I move out).

Being into music production + actually playing multiple instruments = a pain in the wallet. Not to mention all the learning and time that gets invested into all of it. I'm surprised any of us have social lives.

Even if I'm just recording in a garage/room/whatever, I still should be able to get some decent mixes going. Hell, we did it with my band not more than a few months ago, so I know it's possible. I just have to learn the trade. I feel it's better to learn on some semi-good equipment since I know I have the commitment for it already.

Usually I like to start with less-expensive options (like when I started learning guitar and drums), but something like this is different.

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far.

Once I get up and running, I should be able to give my former drummer a run for his money with competing home studios (if I decide to even try). He's been doing it for a while, but even as a newbie, I still had to fight with him to try "new concepts" for recording, though I use the term "new" loosely since it was only new to him (things like double tracking guitars, or panning them, panning the drums, etc).

Chances are, I won't really try to compete, but the option will be open in the future for bands to record through me. I would really enjoy that. Hell, I'd be going to college for it if I thought I could actually make money doing it. But, with the whole DIY thing, there doesn't seem to be a stable future for me unless I am amazingly good, or "know the right people". So I gave up on the dream of working in a pro studio.

 

[mattkw80]

Sonar works with it for sure. So does Cubase. Anything MACKIE Compatible will work with this.

Actually... you should download and read the 40 page manual, off the M-Audio site. This will give you a much better idea.

Yeah I've got way too much money invested in this too.

I've made too many poor purchases, and then had to upgrade to get out of them.

Projectmix should be my last big purchase for a few years. (I HOPE)

I'll let you know.

Yeah just post in here with some impressions after you get it. Even if it doesn't turn out to be that great, there are other Firewire options out there.

I assume I could get a Firepod, and get a separate control surface, and it would kind of have the same effect. The only problem is that the Firepod doesn't have XLR, or at least I don't think. Damn it, I hate this.

I don't want to go through all that, so hopefully the ProjectMix turns out to be everything you hoped it would be.

I'm not even sure if Reaper is compatible with those types of control surfaces, or any for that matter. I'll have to look into it now. I don't see why it wouldn't be, but if it's not, then surely Sonar or Cubase would work with it. I'll figure all that out once I actually have the money to get all this stuff.

Right now, all this expensive equipment I am getting won't really be used to its full potential since I record in a garage with makeshift walls and insulation (though I'm sure it will help). The main thing is just getting good equipment that I can still use when I DO have a better space to work with (ie when I move out).

Being into music production + actually playing multiple instruments = a pain in the wallet. Not to mention all the learning and time that gets invested into all of it. I'm surprised any of us have social lives.

Even if I'm just recording in a garage/room/whatever, I still should be able to get some decent mixes going. Hell, we did it with my band not more than a few months ago, so I know it's possible. I just have to learn the trade. I feel it's better to learn on some semi-good equipment since I know I have the commitment for it already.

Usually I like to start with less-expensive options (like when I started learning guitar and drums), but something like this is different.

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far.

Once I get up and running, I should be able to give my former drummer a run for his money with competing home studios (if I decide to even try). He's been doing it for a while, but even as a newbie, I still had to fight with him to try "new concepts" for recording, though I use the term "new" loosely since it was only new to him (things like double tracking guitars, or panning them, panning the drums, etc).

Chances are, I won't really try to compete, but the option will be open in the future for bands to record through me. I would really enjoy that. Hell, I'd be going to college for it if I thought I could actually make money doing it. But, with the whole DIY thing, there doesn't seem to be a stable future for me unless I am amazingly good, or "know the right people". So I gave up on the dream of working in a pro studio.