MAJOR Labels: The problem with Music

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"Whenever I talk to a band who are about to sign with a major label, I always end up thinking of them in a particular context. I imagine a trench, about four feet wide and five feet deep, maybe sixty yards long, filled with runny, decaying shit. I imagine these people, some of them good friends, some of them barely acquaintances, at one end of this trench. I also imagine a faceless industry lackey at the other end, holding a fountain pen and a contract waiting to be signed.

Nobody can see what's printed on the contract. It's too far away, and besides, the shit stench is making everybody's eyes water. The lackey shouts to everybody that the first one to swim the trench gets to sign the contract. Everybody dives in the trench and they struggle furiously to get to the other end. Two people arrive simultaneously and begin wrestling furiously, clawing each other and dunking each other under the shit. Eventually, one of them capitulates, and there's only one contestant left. He reaches for the pen, but the Lackey says, "Actually, I think you need a little more development. Swim it again, please. Backstroke."

And he does, of course. ..."

-Steve Albini

See the rest of the article at
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/mrr/problemwithmusic.html
 
Ive read that article before, but I just went through it again... good stuff
 
that's some crazy shit... fuck that's why you gotta do shit yourself man.

and screw being a rockstar with a crew and a bus!
 
But that's the mentality that is destroying all the big recording studios! We've all got to quit this forum, sell our recording gear, and go invest in professional studios. For the greater good :D
 
no no.. i mean everything.. I don't mean nessisarily just recording yourself..

Look at the numbers ... the amount of money to be made from a relatively "unsuccesful" band.. now image instead of dreaming about getting your big break you take your career in your own hands.. book the tour yourself.. tour in a van.. lug your own gear. record yourself (either actually recording yourself or saving your pennies to go into a proper studio) promote yourself.. send your stuff to college radio/ reviewers/ zines anywhere you can.. Imagine being able to cut out all the manager and label fees (not to mention legal fees) If you have the talent and drive to do this .. even if you're 1/4 as successfull.. hell even less than that... you'll be doing MUCH better...

Hell my modest band sometimes makes over 500$ in a night in just merch sales (given the show is a decent one) and we have yet to really "go for it" this is just playing small outta town punk shows every now and then.

thing is you then get to keep ALL your profit.. it's a HELL of alot of work though.. but it can be done.

think about this..

if you can tour your ass off and sell say even 7,000 cds at 10$ a pop in a year... that's 70,000 of YOUR MONEY (obviously minus the pressing and split between band members) this is do-able no? add on top of that t-shirts, stickers, any other merch.. i'm not factoring in gas money because you gotta at least get gas money for playing (sometimes a little bit more) You have to get out of the bar scene.. i know it seems like the bar will give you more for playing but you're loosing out.. the all ages scene (unless you really can't fit in) is where you make your money.(merch sales). and where you create your fans

My absolute perfect situation would be to get on a small indie label that would help us with distrabution (even a modest amount of it) and at least provide us with some tour contacts... but i'd prefer to have control.. if you can build a decent following then YOU can tell the labels what the deal is if they come around. Throw the pipe dream away and start actually working is what i say.
 
IDK, you got great points here, but for the record, instead of selling 7,000 cd's for $10 each, and pocketing a portion of that, I rather sell 7,000,000 with a major label, and most likely make 10x the money (probably more & if you get a decent deal). Anyways, I felt the same way, so I started a label. Now I feel some of the pains labels go through for ungreatful snobby artists.

eeb said:
no no.. i mean everything.. I don't mean nessisarily just recording yourself..

Look at the numbers ... the amount of money to be made from a relatively "unsuccesful" band.. now image instead of dreaming about getting your big break you take your career in your own hands.. book the tour yourself.. tour in a van.. lug your own gear. record yourself (either actually recording yourself or saving your pennies to go into a proper studio) promote yourself.. send your stuff to college radio/ reviewers/ zines anywhere you can.. Imagine being able to cut out all the manager and label fees (not to mention legal fees) If you have the talent and drive to do this .. even if you're 1/4 as successfull.. hell even less than that... you'll be doing MUCH better...

Hell my modest band sometimes makes over 500$ in a night in just merch sales (given the show is a decent one) and we have yet to really "go for it" this is just playing small outta town punk shows every now and then.

thing is you then get to keep ALL your profit.. it's a HELL of alot of work though.. but it can be done.

think about this..

if you can tour your ass off and sell say even 7,000 cds at 10$ a pop in a year... that's 70,000 of YOUR MONEY (obviously minus the pressing and split between band members) this is do-able no? add on top of that t-shirts, stickers, any other merch.. i'm not factoring in gas money because you gotta at least get gas money for playing (sometimes a little bit more) You have to get out of the bar scene.. i know it seems like the bar will give you more for playing but you're loosing out.. the all ages scene (unless you really can't fit in) is where you make your money.(merch sales). and where you create your fans

My absolute perfect situation would be to get on a small indie label that would help us with distrabution (even a modest amount of it) and at least provide us with some tour contacts... but i'd prefer to have control.. if you can build a decent following then YOU can tell the labels what the deal is if they come around. Throw the pipe dream away and start actually working is what i say.
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Mindset said:
IDK, you got great points here, but for the record, instead of selling 7,000 cd's for $10 each, and pocketing a portion of that, I rather sell 7,000,000 with a major label, and most likely make 10x the money (probably more & if you get a decent deal). Anyways, I felt the same way, so I started a label. Now I feel some of the pains labels go through for ungreatful snobby artists.
Click to expand...



well yeah... I'd rather sell 7, 000, 000 units too.. but i was trying to give a realistic approach.. It IS possible to make a living off music without the major label.. actually it's almost impossible to make a decent living off a major label unless you are in fact selling millions of albums.. to do that you need the combo of talent, drive, sheer luck, the right marketing, the right producers, and come out with the right songs at the right time.. quite the gamble but it does happen.


That's great that you started your own label.. very commendable and I can't help but respect anyone who tries this.. I also have to generalize and say 9 times outta 10 i'm sure i'd rather work with someone like you (a "real" person) then some big label looking to milk me for all i'm worth. we all have to make a living and I understand that includes labels too...

I dunno i don't want to at all come off like i know everything at all.. quite the contrary.. .. i just know some people that played this game and got fucked... actually i know some people that are getting fucked pretty good by a mid/large sized indie label .. (i think they actually broke up now) anyways it's tough out there


what kinda stuff do you have on your label.. website? wouldn't mind checkin it out :D

edit: hehehe looks like i should just read your website is in your post hehe i'll check it out
 
So the lessons I'm getting out of this are (if you are ever offered a recording contract): Never trust anything that isn't on a legally binding piece of paper. Don't sign a letter of intent. Wait until you see a contract and get it vetted by a decent lawyer before signing anything. Keep your costs down and try to live on a shoestring until you actually have enough leverage to get a more favorable contract.

In other words, keep your head out of your ass and trust no one, and eat lots of beenie-weenies! :D
 
Zaphod B said:
So the lessons I'm getting out of this are (if you are ever offered a recording contract): Never trust anything that isn't on a legally binding piece of paper. Don't sign a letter of intent. Wait until you see a contract and get it vetted by a decent lawyer before signing anything. Keep your costs down and try to live on a shoestring until you actually have enough leverage to get a more favorable contract.

In other words, keep your head out of your ass and trust no one, and eat lots of beenie-weenies! :D
Click to expand...

exactly!! :D :D


perfect case

I don't know if any of you guys know of a band called project wize.

The dudes in that band used to live in my hometown and for a tour they needed a fill in guitarist for whatever reason.. A buddy of mine got the spot and filled in.. They were playing every night with a stageful of "crew" and driving in a huge luxury bus.. livin the rockstar dream.

Did they take home much money after the tour..?? from what I heard it was a HELLS NO.

Not too long after that the band disappeared.. they had their 15 minutes and are now gone.. (i assume it was because they ended up owing way too much money)

so yes basically you have to do the shitty tours in a shitty van regardless of how big the label is.. until you start selling millions of albums you can't pretend you're a high rollin' rockstar because nothing you get is for free..even if it seems that way.
 
You have to OWN your music and distribution

eeb said:
Look at the numbers ... the amount of money to be made from a relatively "unsuccesful" band.. now image instead of dreaming about getting your big break you take your career in your own hands.. book the tour yourself.. tour in a van.. lug your own gear. record yourself (either actually recording yourself or saving your pennies to go into a proper studio) promote yourself.. send your stuff to college radio/ reviewers/ zines anywhere you can.. Imagine being able to cut out all the manager and label fees (not to mention legal fees) If you have the talent and drive to do this .. even if you're 1/4 as successfull.. hell even less than that... you'll be doing MUCH better...
Click to expand...


Great point EEB. Major labels are a machine and will chew up and spit out 80% of the artists coming through the system. There are just way too many middle men in the process getting in between YOUR music and the fan.

Success is going to be dependent on looking at your music as business. Yeah, yeah I know we're all doing it for the love it and not the money, but to be honest, if you're not making money you won't have the resources to do what you love.

The problem is a lot of bands are too lazy about sitting down for an afternoon and really thinking through the process of what they need to do. And if they happen to get past THAT, a lot more never actually execute and get it done.

As a small band, you'll need to look at some creative ways to distribute your music as well. My site www.songforone.com is one potential way for bands to shift the current model around and start making serious money. PM me for more info.
 
hrmm that's an interesting concept.. wouldn't really work out for my band in particular but i'm sure many musicians would love that..

heh i'd have a problem with some sap telling me to change the lyrics to somethings retarded.. not really for the serious band.. but it's definately good if you want to get into the studio musician field.


But also great point about looking at your music as i business.. We're actually in that process of figuring out what we need to do.. what our goals should be... and the infamous booking of tour...
 
What's attractive about the "labels" is that they have the infrastructure and contacts to get the whole thing done (well or poorly) from recording to distribution to touring and everything in between. Start-up bands with young members don't know shit from shinola about any of the process, and I think part of the attraction to signing with a label is that all the band has to do is show up and play.

The really difficult part about going independent would be distribution, I would think. It's the media sales that make the money, and how do you go about getting a CD placed in Walmart (I'm serious here) unless you are part of that enormous record label distribution machine?
 
Zaphod B said:
What's attractive about the "labels" is that they have the infrastructure and contacts to get the whole thing done (well or poorly) from recording to distribution to touring and everything in between. Start-up bands with young members don't know shit from shinola about any of the process, and I think part of the attraction to signing with a label is that all the band has to do is show up and play.

The really difficult part about going independent would be distribution, I would think. It's the media sales that make the money, and how do you go about getting a CD placed in Walmart (I'm serious here) unless you are part of that enormous record label distribution machine?
Click to expand...


this is exactly true.. going completely indie definately has it's limitations.. a mid to large size indie label gets a large amount of distrabution.. maybe not walmart but at least all the major music stores..

To me the idea is to go as far as you can yourself and then the labels are there to help you get to the next level when you're ready.. signing prematurely to any label can destroy a band that may have been full of potential
 
eeb said:
a mid to large size indie label gets a large amount of distrabution.. maybe not walmart but at least all the major music stores..

To me the idea is to go as far as you can yourself and then the labels are there to help you get to the next level when you're ready.. signing prematurely to any label can destroy a band that may have been full of potential
Click to expand...
Yes, it sounds like the best strategy is to not try to get too big, too fast.

BTW, here in the D/FW area, there are no major music stores - at least, none dedicated to music and video only. (I think there may be one Blockbuster Music left and it's not anywhere close to me.) Walmart, Circuit City, Best Buy, and other electronic retailers are the major CD sellers. A few smaller specialty music stores are around. So it does seem kind of a daunting task to get a CD placed in any of these places.
 
ahhh i see yeah in that case for sure.. I was talking about music world or hmv or something of the like.. they tend to carry some indie stuff (although it's usually more expensive) i don't think you can get your cd's sold at a walmart unless a major gets it in there for you.. (something about my cd being sold at walmart really bug me though ;) )
 
With myspace and itunes, no band needs a major label.
Touring is where all the money is at.

Finding good management is key.
 
agreed! but where do you find "good" management.. especially when you're from a smaller town
 
Zaphod B said:
Yes, it sounds like the best strategy is to not try to get too big, too fast.

BTW, here in the D/FW area, there are no major music stores - at least, none dedicated to music and video only. (I think there may be one Blockbuster Music left and it's not anywhere close to me.) Walmart, Circuit City, Best Buy, and other electronic retailers are the major CD sellers. A few smaller specialty music stores are around. So it does seem kind of a daunting task to get a CD placed in any of these places.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they closed much of those like Sam Goody, and I believe all of blockbuster music is gone. Best place here in DFW to sell some music is Traders Village just for note. 800 units sold in a weekend there. And we ran out.

Majority of stores buy their music from a centralized catalog basically. Smaller stores get their stuff mainly through 1 stops. Corporations won't allow you to just walk into a branch of their store, and let you sign cosignments like smaller indie stores.


eeb,

The official page isn't up just yet. It's about 90% compete, which would lay in the domain www.mindsetentertainmentinc.net. We a small indie label with 6 artists, 5 producers, and a dozen office positions. No major regional releases yet, though we have 2 products that are ending their recording period. We ain't big, but we ain't tiny either lol.
 
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