Mackie Onyx 400F...?!?!?

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mark4man

mark4man

MoonMix Studios
The current issue of Sound On Sound is singing the praises of the Mackie Onyx 400...saying it's next generation AKM mastering grade converters & Onyx technology preamps make this unit's sound hard to beat in the pro-audio converter range.

Anyone have this unit?

If so...how does the conversion sound (taking into account the interface alone...purely as a converter...aside from the pre's); & how compatible is it with SONAR operation?

Thanks,

mark4man
 
mark4man said:
The current issue of Sound On Sound is singing the praises of the Mackie Onyx 400...saying it's next generation AKM mastering grade converters & Onyx technology preamps make this unit's sound hard to beat in the pro-audio converter range.

Anyone have this unit?

If so...how does the conversion sound (taking into account the interface alone...purely as a converter...aside from the pre's); & how compatible is it with SONAR operation?

Thanks,

mark4man
I have it; the 400 F on PC with Cubase sx.
Brighter and clearer than the Delta 44 and 2496 audiophile.
I like it and it has two head phone outs plus a control nob so you can ditch your
mixer.
$599 street at GC
 
Sounds WAY better than the Delta 1010 did. Pres are great too for the bank. All around excellent box and I'm glad I got it. No problems at all.
 
Forgive my ignorance as I do not use computer to record at this time, only to mix and such......... Do you still have to run this through your soundcard and, if so, what kind do you have?
 
onyx

tubedude said:
Sounds WAY better than the Delta 1010 did. Pres are great too for the bank. All around excellent box and I'm glad I got it. No problems at all.

I agree... forget the pre-amp debate, everything sounded better going into the
400F.. Also, for some reason the POD sounds brighter and more detail reverb shimmer when put in the LOW Z inputs ( like it helps the POD out amp or something). Its out board lower jitter clock. ditch that PCI and go firewire.

BTW I tested the UA 6176 strip again and failed to be impressed. The bass direct didn't sound any better. very modest hint at softing hi-eq on vox and personally the Waves Renn. Compressor is more transparent than the 1176 portion of the UA 6176. I got better vox using Onyx pre and Renn. Channel
on printing to disk than I could get out of UA 6176.
The difference in the tracks Bass direct is un-noticable on my system.
On vox the 610B seemed a hair/ slightess bit softer than onyx but
I like tracking through Waves Renn. Compressor than the 1176 on both pre-amps.
 
Big Kenny said:
Forgive my ignorance as I do not use computer to record at this time, only to mix and such......... Do you still have to run this through your soundcard and, if so, what kind do you have?


It IS your soundcard once you install it. You need a firewire input on either your mobo (newer ones have it) or a pci firewire card to plug it in to (about $30 give or take)
It has 10 inputs, 10 outs, 2 headphone outs, 4 very decent mic preamps, 2 D.I.'s and lots of cool routing. Its a nice box.
 
be warned, the 400F doesn't have -10/ +4 nominal input level.
It is only +4 pro TRS ie, your keyboards and PODs need to go through one of the
pre-amp first..
The line in isn't hot enough for Korg, Rolands, Pods.
Motu, Layas and M-Audio do have this option to up gain to -10 pro-summer on selected
channels so you can happily line in your Keyboards.
Be warned are you'll be looking for 4 more pre's to up your line level stuff.
I have a 1202 and bluetube DP sitting around doing nothing and the 400F sounds real goodbut, its not a published fact and that might make electronic music guys with lots of stereo keyboards look elsewhere.
("It has 10 inputs, 10 outs, 2 headphone outs, 4 very decent mic preamps, 2 D.I.'s and lots of cool routing.)" and a control room nob

Its pro level kit and you'll be disappointed when you plug in an electro tribe and your meters read -20db. However, I feel my line stuff sounded better running on a pre-amp.
 
dcomerford...

Holy crap...thanks a lot...to you & tubedude, as well.

I've been worried shitless over going firewire. I kept hearing about how the interface was asynchronous packet-based w/ no embedded clock...hence JITTER. So I was prepared to make the jump all the way to Apogee/Mytek/Benchmark & go AES/EBU.

But then recently I began thinking...wait a minute...the conversion happens outside (prior to) the box, meaning that the AI then feeds the already converted digital signal to the PC's HD (via the DAW.) The internal clock still controls the conversion so there's no jitter worries there. If it's digital going into the PC then as long is the buffering is handled OK there's no worries there.

(it still slightly bothers me that S/P DIF & ADAT have embedded clocks & firewire doesn't...but hey.)

Anyway, I've got the UA 2-610 & a Grace Model 101 so I won't have any problem getting my synths up to line level (& my XV-5050 is hot anyway.)

I'm hearing that the converters sound as good as the LynxTwo (but then...how could they tell that...can the pre's in the 400 be bypassed?)

Thanks again,

mark4man


BTW - Never mind...I get it...10 I/O, 4 pre's.

How about those pre's; are they Class A (or doesn't that matter anymore)?
 
"How about those pre's; are they Class A (or doesn't that matter anymore)?
Reply With Quote"

They don't mention that so I can assume not.
the last word from Rupert Neve

IS IT “CLASS A”?
What is “Class A”? It’s not just an expression of “goodness” that has been used carelessly to describe every kind of amplifier from consumer electronics to Pro Audio. Class A is actually a mode of operation in which the supply current to the amplifying device does not vary as a function of the amplitude of the signal being amplified.

Efficiency of Class A amplifiers is low, but the wonderful sound of my old consoles was achieved with single sided pure Class A amplifiers. In those days console features, facilities, tracks, Aux's etc. were far fewer and we could pack these large, heat generating circuits into the module.

The ever increasing complexity of modern Sound Control Consoles led to the widespread use of Integrated Circuits (I.C.s) to save space and achieve better efficiency. I.C.s are almost all push-pull amplifiers that have some residual crossover distortion. Some have very low distortion but even when this is well below the noise level, it can influence the sound we hear.

Humans can detect incredibly small values of this type of high order distortion. It’s not heard as such but causes emotional feelings of dissatisfaction and fatigue. The only way to totally eliminate crossover distortion is to use a Class A single sided amplifier. This can only be achieved using discrete components. The efficiency is low but the sonic advantage has been proven over many years.

Portico™ modules are very carefully configured to be as simple as possible, but sonic integrity has been given the highest priority. The low efficiency of these discrete circuits is reflected by the high supply current required by Portico™ modules!

ANyhow back to the subject, I like these pre-amps and bought them on the advise
of a studio owner who has Matched Avalons, 430 ISA'a, Manley, and Blue RObbie and
a UA 6176. Which BTW, I have the UA6176 in my possession.
using the UA 6176 against the onyx with Wave Channel Plug while tracking to disk, I
prefer the Onyx and Renn. ( less trouble plus gating) same big sound with only 5ms delay monitoring.
Pre-to pre I found the 610B just a hair softer in hi-eq ( on my passive Tannoys )
on vox and bass direct testing. These where very subtle differences so after I buy everything else maybe I would get a 610 SOLO for the the way it softens the sylibis
on a condensor mic.
Again, I took a layer of "wax paper" off in clearity of sound just going 400F and ditching the M-audio 24/96 and delta 44. 400F is the clock.

embeded clocks can be bypassed and you only want one ( your most stable clock) and everything else slaved to it. Ie M-audio will sound better if you go so far by an Apogee clock and slave it Via "Word."

If you get it let me know the diff. in 2 610 B and Grace 101 to onyx

I did not find I could bypass the pre-amp 1-4 onyx( the pre nobs are active and add
gain). I could not find a way to bypass them even with a half insert on the insert channels.
 
Thanks again...

(& yes...I do know what Class A opperation is...I was just hoping the Onyx sounded so good it didn't matter.)

One more qiuestion; & then I'll bug off...promise:

You mentioned pelling off a layer of wax paper to greater clarity as compared to the M-Audio gear.

How about Echo products? I currently run the Layla 24/96, which, at the time it was constructed, boasted the same "latest technology AKM converters" as the Onyx (which for the Layla was the 5383 A/D & the 4393 D/A.) Wonder if I could peel off a layer or two off of that machine?

Anybody here replaced a Layla w/ an Onyx 400?

mark4man


BTW - I wonder if what you're hearing is the analog circuitry feeding the A/D's or the A/D's themselves?


BTW2 - My 2-610 has only been used a dozen times or so & is in pristine condition...I'll sell it to you cheap:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze3yjbu/artlinks.htm
 
I've said it a hundred times now, here it is again.... the line inputs are perfect FOR WHAT THEY ARE DESIGNED FOR... they are PERFECT for outboard preamps. THe soudncraft preamps output is exactly the same as the line input on the meters... start to cli[ the soudncraft, start to clip the converters. My API is TOO hot for them. They are perfect. If your keyboard doesnt work into a line input, then its your keyboards fault. Run it into a preamp channel ,you have 4 of them.
As for the preamp/line gain thing and bypassing it... look on the front panel at the gain controls.... see that UNITY symbol on there? thats no gain, no attenuation.... ahhh.... read the manuals bros, read the manuals.... there is a line in on all the preamp channels too, and you can amke it HOT if you need it to be for crappy low signal equipment. If you happen to be hitting in the -10 range on something at its hottest, thats no big deal anyway. It'll be fine. Trust me.
 
reading the manual

so...if I can induce line level gain than the pre's can truely be bypassed.
Not that I care cause I'm not a purest and these are transparent.
Even at unity would not the preamp circuit effect the channel for the purist...for sake of argument over a striaght +4 line level input.


I do love these Hi-z inputs. Everything sounds better; even a POD which is sopposed to be ready to go -10/+4 ....even through a pre- amp it sounds better
hitting the Hi-Z first ( brighter , more hi EQ, longer reverb sustain) .
Made me understand why one wound pay $179 for a radial direct box with Jensen Trannys.
 
dcomerford said:
so...if I can induce line level gain than the pre's can truely be bypassed.
Not that I care cause I'm not a purest and these are transparent.
Even at unity would not the preamp circuit effect the channel for the purist...for sake of argument over a striaght +4 line level input.


I do love these Hi-z inputs. Everything sounds better; even a POD which is sopposed to be ready to go -10/+4 ....even through a pre- amp it sounds better
hitting the Hi-Z first ( brighter , more hi EQ, longer reverb sustain) .
Made me understand why one wound pay $179 for a radial direct box with Jensen Trannys.


Or $1000 for a Great RIver or an API. ESPECIALLY an API.
 
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