M-S Decoding

  • Thread starter Thread starter jgourd
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jgourd

jgourd

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I am getting a new stereo mic soon. It can do M-S recording but doesn't have a built in M-S decoder. Since I'll be using CubaseSX to do the recordings I am pretty sure I do the M-S decoding there.

I am assuming I'll take the S wave file and assign it to two channels, each panned hard to one side and on of them inverted phase. I'll lock the faders on the two channels. I'll take the M wave file and assign it to a new channel and pan it to center. Adjusting the mix between the M & S channels will help with adjusting the width of the image.

Is there an easier way?
 
Well, you wouldn't use a stereo mic to do M-S recording. You'd want a cardiod mic as the M (middle) mic and a figure 8 mic which is the S (side) mic that gets spit and one side inverted.
 
jgourd said:
I am assuming I'll take the S wave file and assign it to two channels, each panned hard to one side and on of them inverted phase. I'll lock the faders on the two channels. I'll take the M wave file and assign it to a new channel and pan it to center. Adjusting the mix between the M & S channels will help with adjusting the width of the image.

Is there an easier way?
Click to expand...
I doubt there is an easier way in Cubase SX but you'll get it done perfectly fine how you described it. I've done it in SX before.
 
Here is the sixty four dollar question. I am running the original SX on my notebook (SX3 on mian DAW). I haven't looked at it in a while and the machine is firmly put away. Is there an invert phase button in SX?
 
yeah, that link just says one of the applications can be the MS method. it's got cardiod, omi OR figure 8...not all three at the same time.

anyway, you don't need the MS decoder to get the MS method to work. i had a discussion awhile back about that and many people agreed that the decoder didn't do anything that you can'd in a DAW or on a mixer.

Take the side signal and copy it to a track and pan one hard left and one hard right...flip one out of phase. then bring up the mid one (panned mono) until you like what you hear....just like you originally stated.
 
Light said:
No it can't, those are both spaced pairs, and there is NO way a coincident mic like that can be used for spaced pairs.

GO FORTH, READ, AND LEARN
Click to expand...

Light,

An LSD-2 can do Blumlein just fine, as the DPA source you mentioned indicates. It's just a pair of coincident figure 8 mics.
 
There is a phase reversal button in SX3.

You can also have a read here for more on the topic:

http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=6543&highlight=stereo+decode+matrix

There are also several plugs that can do M-S to/from stereo. Just record the M and S signals on a stereo track, put the plug inline and adjust the spread in the plug. Less clutter and channels, so simpler to have the overview.

The decoding is very simple... as you say, it works by having the S signal split to two channels L+R, one of them inverted, and then adding the M.

So you have L = M+S and R = M-S (or the other way round, depending on the orientation of the mics, I guess).

This is very easy to do in a plugin and uses virtually no CPU power.

I think I have been using one of the built-in plugs, but it may be one that came with WaveLab and not SX.

Otherwise you can find one here:

http://www.kellyindustries.com/stereo_tools.html


-- Per.
 
Cool, thanks. Now I just need to pick out the best Firewire Interface for the job:-) , leaning toward a Presonus Firebox. I was looking at the Edirol N66 but I am told the 96K A//Ds in the Firebox are so much better than the 192Ks in the Edirol.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Light,

An LSD-2 can do Blumlein just fine, as the DPA source you mentioned indicates. It's just a pair of coincident figure 8 mics.
Click to expand...



DOH!!!

Yeah right, I was thinking of something else (obviously).

It can't do ORTF though, which is what made me say it in the first place.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
You are correct about the ORTF, my mistake. Still, there are a lot of coincedent techniques that the LSD2 can do. Come to the fest to see it in action.
 
Quote from Track Rat-

"Well, you wouldn't use a stereo mic to do M-S recording."

Not true, Track Rat. A number of stereo mics are built precisely to do M-S recording, and have (often) built-in decoders, such as, for instance-
Sony ECM-MS907 and
Sony ECM-MS957.

That's Electret Condenser Microphone- MidSideXXX. They put out only 2 signals, the mid and side signals. The figure 8 side signal is already doubled and phase reversed. The decoder results in one anomaly, though. Input and output gain for the 2 stereo channels must be identical, or the noise of the figure of 8 lobes will not cancel out. This means that the degree of stereo separation is fixed, unless there is adjustment for that. ECM-MS957 has a switch for that, so the degree of stereo separation can be set for 90 or 120 degrees. I use this mic frequently as a remote stereo mic with my Korg PXR4, and occasionally as a studio mic. IMHO, it is one of the most overlooked and little known killer mic bargains. BTW, it makes a really good one point drum overhead when set for 90 degrees.
The only problem was figuring out how to get from a 1/8" stereo miniplug to
2 male XLR's. That took a little creativity.

Harvey beat me to the Blumlein deal.-Richie
 
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