M-audio sound lag

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Middleman

Middleman

Professional Amateur
Found this little note in the text file of the latest WDM beta driver from M-audio. Thought I would share. This applies to version 5.31 beta.

10-16-02 Updated Readme to posting on 10-15-02

Attention Delta Card User:

Very Important!!!

This BETA release of the WDM driver for Delta series

1) Does not have GSIF (GigaStudio Interface) support.

2) NO support for less than 10ms operation with WDM applications.

3) This driver can be loaded and used with Windows ME, improved WDM
support for use with Windows ME.

List of improvements:

1) This driver has improvements in the WDM architecture to fix
a reported bug concerning the amount of delay (track offset)
depending on the buffer size chosen in the delta control panel for
Sonar and WDM application users.

Audio recorded using these drivers is delayed relative to previously
recorded tracks. This delay has been reduced from 180 samples offset
to less than 10 samples on average.

2) Multiple card sync with ASIO applications and the Delta 44 without need
for external hardware SPDIF lock. This added feature is an advantage of ASIO
architecture. This is not available for WDM due to limitations within
WDM architecture.

3) Ravisent based DVD Decoders no longer experience loss of AV sync
when using Sonic Cineplayer or using the Ravisent decoder with Zoom Player,
Media Player 9 and other DVD decoders that can use the Ravisent decoder.

For the future:

An updated WDM driver is in the works, however the main point to this
beta driver being released as a service to those users wishing to obtain
improved decoder support with Ravisent based decoding software for DVD playback.

The professional series Delta card driver is in the works for the immediate
future. As this is a BETA driver and we wish to make this the most compatible
driver for audio recording, for the discerning pro-audio user, take this driver,
work with it and send your concerns with this beta release to testing@m-audio.com.

Your input is greatly appreciated in making this a better driver for the final
candidate release of this driver for the Delta series.

Thank you.

M-Audio
Testing and Engineering Team
 
I run WinME and have never been able to get the Delta WDM drivers to work for me.

Do I dare try again??? :(

The 10ms doesn't bother me, as I currently run about 200ms with the MME drivers. However, I'm not sure I understand the delay relative to previously recorded tracks. Is this something that has always existed, or something specific to this driver? Anyone know?
 
I assumed that the 180 sample offset is 180 ticks, as the software refers to them, under the slide function. Not exactly sure though.
 
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=59192

This should answer your questions - the offset problem was very serious and exists in all previous WDM driver versions. To everyone's detriment, it went unnoticed for a long time.

Basicly, the temporal offset between previous and newly recorded tracks would vary with delta control panel buffer size. At high buffer sizes, this offset could reach up to something like 50ms. The 180 samples they mention refers to the lowest possible offset on the old drivers - ie using smallest possible buffers - about 4ms at 44.1K.

Use the new drivers.

also check out :
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=63530
 
Last edited:
bdemenil - does it only effect the WDM drivers? I have always used the MME drivers, and maybe that's why I haven't encountered it before.

middleman - a sample is not a tick. A tick, I believe, is a sub-division of a quarter note.; whereas a sample refers to the sampling rate of the audio - e.g., 44,100 samples per second at CD quality.
 
It only affects WDM, not ASIO, and as far as I know (but I'm not sure) not MME.

The newest drivers correct the problem.
 
Oh the Humanity!!!

Well I downloaded the .31 driver and tonight I tried to install it on my WinME machine.

Uninstalled the MME drivers, and installed the WDM's. Installation went smoooooooth. Fire up Sonar, and it tells me that none of my audio cards are supported. I tell it to use them anyway. Get into Sonar, profile the sound cards, get 10ms latency (I was at 150 with the MME drivers - oh we're looking sweet!). Exit Sonar and start it up again. No error messages this time. Load a project, click play, the cursor starts moving but no sound comes out. Raise latency, reprofile, and try again. Now I get nothing but stuttering. Raise buffers and raise latency again. Now all I get is immediate dropouts.

Uninstall and resinstall WDM drivers. Again installation goes fine. Try playing something in Windows Media Player. No go, Media Player simply hangs up.

I'll save you the next two hours of the story, which involves many tweaks and reinstalls, with basically the same results. Sonar won't work, and neither with Media Player.

Reinstall MME drivers. Media Player works fine. Sonar initially coughs and wheezes, but after a few tweaks, Sonar is working again.

End of story.

I'm using MME drivers. My DAW works fine with them. Why I continue to try and install WDM drivers is beyond me. These drivers were supposed to be OK for WinME... well... I beg to differ. :(
 
Wow, bummer. Sorry I got you started. It did give you something to do on a Friday night though. I should've at least brought some beers over and watched over your shoulder.

I am having no problems with WDM except the lag thing. It is a pain after the 5th or 6th track when everything gets pretty loosy goosy sound wise.

Thanks for the heads up on ticks vs. samples/second.
 
No prob, middleman. As you said, it kept me off the streets on a Friday night (although the beer would have been welcomed). I'm pretty sure my problems with WDM drivers are the OS (WinME). That's why I thought maybe this one would do the trick.

I sent off an e-mail to M-Audio. Not to complain, just to let them know they didn't work for me.
 
WinMe is garbage. Do yourself a favor and upgrade to WinXP or 2k - it'll feel like you got a new computer.


Middleman, if you're having track-offset issues, why don't you try using the new driver or the beta. I have tested the beta, and it works fine. The new driver probably works, but I haven't heard from anyone who actually tested it.
 
bdemenil

In a word, Gigasampler.


It requires ASIO drivers and the beta does not incorporate them. I am going to have to wait for the final version. Thanks for the suggestion though.
 
Update

I e-mailed M-Audio about the 5.31 driver not working with WinME, and I got the following response from them:
Please download the WDM 5.10.00.29x12 Pro series driver. The 5.10.00.31 driver does not have low latency support for Sonar, this driver clearly states that it is meant for home theater users.

Please use the other driver and let us know how this works for you.
Click to expand...

I think the comment about "clearly stated" is a bit of a stretch, but I'll give the .29 driver a try and see what happens. Interesting though that when you use the M-Audio driver locator and choose WinME as your OS, this driver does not come up under the recommendations. The only WDM driver that comes up is the .31.
 
Update #2

I tried the 29 x 12 Pro driver, and it didn't work for me either. I've sent an e-mail to M-Audio to advise them. :(
 
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