Low recoding level with dynamic mic

[tryingtorecord]

Hi Guys/Girls

I've been recoding with my Rode NT2 for a while but recently, I decided to dust off my Peavey Low-Z dynamic as I thought it might sound good to use for contrasting VB's with the main vox.

I plugged it into my sound interfaces breakout box (an ESI Wami Rack 192L), turned off the phantom power and fired up my DAW (Cakewalk Sonar X1).

Now I can't work out what I'm doing wrong, but when singing/talking into the mic, the level indicator on my WAMI Rack's mixer tops out at 0dB (in the red) and in Sonar, the level indicator also tops out at 0dB (This meter is stereo so the left side is topping out, the right side is hardly moving - and when monitoring it's only coming out of one side - I'm not sure how to switch to mono?).

So I record and when done, the waveform is tiny, topping out at around -18dB.

I've searched all over the net and my Sonar/ESI docs but I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Appreciate any help/suggestions

 

[JimmyS1969]

The meter in your DAW displays dBFS values. -18 is approximately the equivalent of 0dB. That is where you want your record levels in a DAW.

 

[Massive Master]

You could probably argue about the Peavey mic (there are better dynamics out there) and you could probably add a little gain (not much -- As mentioned, your input level "per track" should be sitting around there anyway, but you could likely peak occasionally at around -12dBFS and still be in decent shape), but is the signal normal otherwise?

It's not "tiny" for sure -- It's normal. But is it NORmal --- Does it have natural dynamics or is it being "clipped-off" at -18dBFS? If that's the case, there's probably a gain-staging issue somewhere.

 

[tryingtorecord]

Thanks for the reply guys, I didn't realise the DAW metering was different! However, all I know is that when I record using my NT2 with PP, it is a lot clearer and the waveform is also a lot bigger (almost the height of the 'block' that it sits in) - when recording with the Peavey, it's so quiet, I can hardly hear anything when played with the rest of the track.....

PS Yep, it's probably not the best Dynamic out there - but it was just sitting around doing nothing for the past 100 years or so lol so I thought I'd put it to some use

 

[JimmyS1969]

Thanks for the reply guys, I didn't realise the DAW metering was different! However, all I know is that when I record using my NT2 with PP, it is a lot clearer and the waveform is also a lot bigger (almost the height of the 'block' that it sits in) - when recording with the Peavey, it's so quiet, I can hardly hear anything when played with the rest of the track.....

PS Yep, it's probably not the best Dynamic out there - but it was just sitting around doing nothing for the past 100 years or so lol so I thought I'd put it to some use

Well, the NT2 had quite a bit more clarity than most dynamics. Typical of condenser mics. It also has a greater output level than your other mic. Whatever mic you use, concentrate on getting the levels consistent while recording. You control this with your preamp. You want to set the preamp to record at -18dBFS in your DAW, If the condenser is recording at a higher input level, then you should be concerned with lowering it, not making a quieter mic match it.

 

[Massive Master]

No doubt, if your waveform is "taking up the block" then you're probably tracking too hot (probably WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY to hot). And the fact that the two mics have different outputs is all fine and wonderful, but are you not adjusting levels between the two?

 

[mixsit]

..Now I can't work out what I'm doing wrong, but when singing/talking into the mic, the level indicator on my WAMI Rack's mixer tops out at 0dB (in the red) and in Sonar, the level indicator also tops out at 0dB (This meter is stereo so the left side is topping out, the right side is hardly moving - and when monitoring it's only coming out of one side - I'm not sure how to switch to mono?)..

And a few things regarding meters not agreeing-

In Sonar your track meters should read the same levels in record and playback modes - if and when the track fader, trim/gain are at 'zero, 'unity.
Your interface metering should (-it would be nice if it did) match this as well.

However- meters can be set in different scales, and also be configured to show 'peaks or set to act slower and show 'RMS or 'average level.

Also in Sonar you can assign track (and the bus meter's) different scales and if they are 'peak or 'rms (or both at the same tine- very handy) differently for each mode.
Anyway something to check out.

 

[tryingtorecord]

Thanks all, a little confused now! I just checked on Sonar and there are 2 dB meters right next to each other, they are different, on one my waveform is reading around -28dB (Not - 18, my mistake )

On the other I'm not sure as the centre of the scale just says, the other I'm assuming is actual dB.

So I'm guessing my recording is too low after all?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Thanks all, so whicever mic I'm using, I should aiming for around -18dBFS? it just seems way too quiet in relation to all other instrumentation, (Kontakt, various VST's etc), should I reduce the level for everything so it's all around -18dBFS - if so when I'm doing my final mix, should I also be aiming for the same level with that? Isn't that a big quiet or is that what it should be? Confused!

Pretty much "yes" to all of the above. People recording vocals etc. over tracks or loops often get suckered into recording too hot because the tracks/loops are often too hot. Turn them down so the peaks are around -18 to -12dBFS and record your other stuff at a similar level, then mix to a similar level, then after exporting the mix at the same bit/sample rate as the project you can finalize it to whatever level you want.

 

[mixsit]

Since we're both in Sonar something that's worked well for me is track record meters set -24dBFS, 'Peak + RMS' mode. When the body of a signal is just popping into view, you're in the ball park.
We're shooting for in and around that nominal line level range for the analog gear- Average (RMS' on our meter) -18 -20 or so, the room above is for peaks. 'Percussion, stuff that's peaks only leave some good safety room well away from 0dBFS.
The beauty of 24bit, a bit higher or lower (even quite a lot lower.. it isn't critical.