low pass filter for guitars

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cake1122

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hey i was just wandering what some of you guys set your lpf at when recording distorted electric guitar.

thanks
 
I don't usually record with filters on to keep my options open for when mixng.

But when using filters in the mix... I don't usually need a LPF on guitars. If i need to reuce the top end, I just use an shelving eq to dip a bit of top end down a few dBs.

I do however have much use for HPFs. I tend to solo the guitar track, then raise my filter until I hear the GUITAR sound change. I then back off a bit. This is usually around 90 - 140Hz. I do this to most tracks actually, apart from bass and kick.

I then listen to the mix and cut into the sound more, depending on what is in the mix and what I want to achieve. This varies greatly and could range from 150 - 400Hz.
 
cake1122 said:
hey i was just wandering what some of you guys set your lpf at when recording distorted electric guitar.

thanks
Click to expand...

My favorite low pass filter is a Jensen P10R. :)

Cheers,

Otto
 
real heavy guitar or moderate?

I'd start by adjusting mic position and mic selection

next...

these frequencies bother me and I usually notch them to some degree with 2.3K being the worst

2.3K, 3.5K and 4.5K.

next I may boost in these areas, it just depends on the song.

70-100 - bottom
400-600 - note
1.5K - feel/presence
4K-6K - bite
8K-10K - air

be careful adjusting each.

FWIW, here's a very short before and after clip striving for a bit more presence and growl. no top end roll off (i.e. LPF). the 1st part is as tracked and the second is EQ'd using some of what I described above. of coarse you may not care at all for the difference, but hopefully you'll take something useful away.

Heavy Distortion Demo
 
ofajen said:
My favorite low pass filter is a Jensen P10R. :)

Cheers,

Otto
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Yeah, or even the pickup themselves. Lot of parts of a guitar chain are designed to shed highs. Very little response above 8kHz.
 
It depends on the amp/mic/pickup/guitar combo. For example I just finished project with a ESP with EMG 81's -> JCM200(DSL100) -> 1960A -> 57 -> Great River MP2nv. Needless to say there was a lot of annoying high end stuff that needed to be filtered out. I think I ended up at about 10k
 
i roll off everything below 100hz and everything above 5-6k. i mean everything. i'll automate the low end to give more low end during palm mutes or a specific passage...but all that guitar down there doesn't do anything but blur the bass the kick. same deal with the high on the guitar. it'll sound terrible solo'd out, but fits nice in a mix for a rock band. i also realize how extreme this is, and i'm sure i'll get blasted by someone, but seriously try it, you might be surprised. btw, this is for heavy rock stuff. if i was doing clean guitar or acoustic things change per the project.
 
I always have my LPF set at "out" or "bypass". If you are noticing audio that high in the spectrum on a guitar track than it is because that guitar track has audio that high. It's not the same as it is with really low frequencies that are often more "mechanical" in nature. Cutting the highs off a guitar track though is an excellent way to make your guitars sound muffled, mushy and muddy though:)
 
xstatic said:
I always have my LPF set at "out" or "bypass". If you are noticing audio that high in the spectrum on a guitar track than it is because that guitar track has audio that high. It's not the same as it is with really low frequencies that are often more "mechanical" in nature. Cutting the highs off a guitar track though is an excellent way to make your guitars sound muffled, mushy and muddy though:)
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I agree.

As with any stringed instrument, the timbre is EVERYTHING about the sound, and our ears are sensitive to hearing ALL of it. A low pass filter on any guitar is a silly idea! The A note on the 5th fret on the high E string has a fundamental of 1.6Khz. By the time you get to two octaves above that note, which are still overtones that are prevalent in the sound, you are at about 6khz, but the energy there is minimal. Having those frequencies is not interfering with other instruments! Exactly opposite!!! You may need to see what is strong in that region and possibly cut it a bit to help the guitar retain a nice top end!

Any time you start "mixing by the numbers", I can assure you that you are in some way butchering your audio, and it isn't realizing it's full potential!

EQ is a dangerous thing! Most around here use too much of it for some reason. It is like some guys think that you HAVE to use it!

I used to give this advice:

Set up a mix that is just adjustments of level and panning. Make the mix sound as good as possible with JUST level and panning adjustments. Render this mix. Do your assessment of the mix based on this mix. What needs to be done to make the mix better?

Do those things and render a new mix. Compare them! Did you accomplish what you felt you wanted to do?

I think many of you guys will find that you totally over-processed you mix. You will notice that everything now has a hard edge to it. You will probably find that in comparison, your mix lacks excitement and cohesion. Things start sounding a bit phony.

Try it. I used to get a LOT of emails from members here years ago that stated that they used to just start mixing without doing a "fader up and adjust pan" mix first, and that they would come out with horrible mixes, but after they started doing a faders up and adjust pan mix, they found that they did FAR less processing and that their mixes sounded much better!
 
Ford Van said:
As with any stringed instrument...
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That's excellent advice all the way down the line.

The part about trying the faders-up rough mix is so second-nature and basic to those who have been mixing for a while - hell, it's hard to even call it "mixing" if that's not an early basic step :) - that we sometimes forget that rookies going into this racket blind might not have realized this basic procedure yet.

Mixing does not mean LAYERING discreet tracks on top of each other (I wonder if the timeline layout in digital multtrack editing contributes to this misconception?) so much as it means MIXING or blending tracks together to make a coherent whole. And what better way to start a mix than to throw the (more or less) raw parts together and see what needs to be done to get from that stone soup to the finished product you have in your head? Only then can the real EQ decisions be made.

We've heard on these forums a million times statements like, "I got my [instrument of your choice] sounding really cool, but when I put it in the mix, it sounds like ass." That's like saying I got this really cool color of blue, but it clashes with the rest of the colors I have. And that's because they're putting the cart before the horse and EQing to a solo track instead of EQing to a mix just like picking a color without considering the rest of the colors it has to go with.

And I have to join the crowd in saying that I don't believe I have ever low-passed a guitar except maybe if the track has excessive hiss or high-frequency amp noise on it and I couldn't re-track. And even then, it's usually targeted notching EQ rather than a full low pass.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
We've heard on these forums a million times statements like, "I got my [instrument of your choice] sounding really cool, but when I put it in the mix, it sounds like ass."
G.
Click to expand...

I see this happen a lot with the less experienced bands. It seems like they all want to have their own "killer" tone and never seem to think at all about how it will work with the rest of the band. Like the drummer will hand me a CD and say they want the drums to sound like that, and then the guitar players all pick a differnt disc, the singer does, the bass player, and then special requests per song etc... I guess they all forget that a band is a collaborative effort and that what they each do needs to compliment what the others are doing. Otherwise they are just a herd of musicians. I guess thats why I end up producing so many of the projects I do because I care noting for how each individual thing sounds, but my vision always thinks of the band as a whole and what each person can contribute to making that whole more cohesive.
 
I see a lot of numbers get thrown around when there's talk of EQ but personally think those numbers are meaningless without anyone hearing the sounds they are talking about. If you were to ask me what frequency I cut/what I boosted in any of my tunes, I wouldn't be able to tell you. I have a rough idea of what frequencies to start around if I hear something I think the mix needs, and to me its just an educated twiddling of the right knobs until it sounds the way I want it. Once you start getting numbers stuck in your head (ie "guitars need rolling off at Xhz/bass guitar needs a boost of Xdb at Yhz with a Q of Z"), its no better than barking out compressor settings to me. It almost the same as setting your EQ's before even listening. Not every recording sounds the same, or has the same harmonics or sonic properties. And more to the point not every instrument X has the same instrument Y and Z accompanying it. It's all very well saying "guitars need this" but it all depends on what else is going on at the same time. Hell...maybe I'm just stating the obvious.
 
My general rule of thumb is get a good signal
Shit in = Shit out.
 
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