Lots to Learn...

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SteveE9C6

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My "studio" is a room 14'x21' with 9' ceilings. This is in our 102 year old restored home. The home is on pier and beam construction. The original floor is planked hardwood. It is covered by a thick pad and plush carpet. Two of the walls are exterior walls. These walls consist of 1/2" sheetrock-1/2inch planked solid wood-2inch fiberglass insulation-1/2" cyprus slatting-1/2 inch foam insulation-Vinyl Siding. The 14 foot exterior wall (west) has a six foot wide fireplace in the middle of it which is closed up. The mixer sits on the hearth for the fireplace. On either side of the fireplace is a window measuring 2'2"x5'9". Both sides of the mixer are flanked by rack gear.
The adjoining south 21 foot wall has a series of three similar windows beginning three feet from the corner juncture. The middle window is a little wider at 2'10''. At the other end of this wall is what use to be our front door. It is a solid wood door which is no longer used...well, rarely.
Both of the other walls are the following construction: 1/2" sheetrock-1/2"planked solid wood-2" dead air-1/2" planked solid wood-1/2" sheetrock. The east wall has no doors or windows. The remaining north wall has a doorway beginning 5'8" from the juncture of the west wall. This is a doorway which opens inward to the studio and opens into our living room. This door is an exterior double french door with windows. It is very soldidly built and has weather seals/gaskets. It is six feet wide and just under six feet tall.

The ceiling is 1/2 inch sheetrock-1/2 inch solid slab wood-4 inches blown insulation- 8 foot high attic crawl space.

I have the following Auralex:

22 2"x24"x48" wedges
10 12"x12"x24" Lenrt Bass Traps
8 T-Fusers

I am thinking about pulling out the carpet (which actually is very nice stuff) and putting down a laminate wood floor over the old floor. There has to be something over the old wood floor as the original floor is kinda drafty!

Ideas? Thoughts?
 
Sounds like a nice set-up in an amazing old house with tons of character!
I'm sure you'll want to be sympathetic to that existing flavour and character of the 100+ year old house.

The major hurdle I see is dealing with the peir and beam foundation, as it will aid in sound transmission. Ripping out the carpet is probably a good idea as carpet tends to absorb high frequencies which will give the room an overall bassy sound. Doing so will of course require the installation of a sub-floor for the laminate floor to rest on.

3/4" plywood decking, followed by a vapor barrier, and then the laminate flooring would probably be the most un-intrusive to the existing structure, but likely to give you a less than desireable Sound Transmission Class.

What sort of base boards do you have?
Could they be removed and replaced without degredation to the existing walls? It sounds like you have pretty hefty walls, thats good!
What sort of heating do you have in the room?
Is it forced air, radiant baseboards, or radiators?

If all that can be accomplished, and budget allows, then I would suggest an additional layer of 1/2" plywood decking, (running the grain in the opposite direction as the 3/4", and over lapping the seams), then the vapor barrier, and the laminate flooring as described above.

There are other ways to achieve this, I'm just giving some simple solutions. As always, economics dictate.

Maybe you could post some pics of the room? that might help to visualize what you have and which direction to take.
 
sounds like a nice place Steve. Michael's right in that you won't get a whole lot of isolation from the rest of the house with the pier/beam structure. You could float a new floor on the carpet maybe?? (which could be removed later if necessary) as ceiling height is not a problem.

This door is an exterior double french door with windows. It is very soldidly built and has weather seals/gaskets. It is six feet wide and just under six feet tall.
Click to expand...

we sure have got taller in 100 years :):)

cheers
john
 
John Sayers said:
...Michael's right in that you won't get a whole lot of isolation from the rest of the house with the pier/beam structure.

cheers
john
Click to expand...

See, I DO pay attention in John's classes!!




I take notes too!
:D
 
I will try to take some pics and post them. I did a drawing but couldn't get it loaded as the file is too big. I've thought about getting clear sound block for over the windows, but I'll bet it would cost a fortune. I'm thinking about using fiberglass insulation in the windows covered by wedges. I have not put up any of the Auralex yet... I'm just getting started in room treatment.


I don't think I can put a floor over the carpet as then the double doors would not open....Also the web site for the flooring says not to install it over carpet.
 
First... thanks for the replies. I've been busy with a number of things involving recording. I've decided on "Silent Step Kronuswiss" flooring. It comes with a special underlayment which is supposed to reduce sound transmission by 50%. I will lay this over a thick felt pad. I'm making boxes that fill in the windows that will be constructed like this. 1/2inch plywood-2 inch fiberglass-1/2 inch plywood-black felt. These will then be covered by aurelex wedges.

I sure wish I had more room.. but I think my wife is not going to give up any more rooms in the house...unless I use the attic. The attic is huge but is not heated or cooled.... major bucks. ...but maybe in the future?
 
I started working on the windows last night.... whew! This is hard work for an old man:) I altered the design I alluded to above.

Here is my final window filling project.

Double pane thermal deply tinted black glass.
2 mil black plastic sheeting in three layers (6 mil)
This was stapled in and sealed with duct tape.
3.5 inch fiberglass accoustic batting
1/4 inch particle board
2 inch Auralex wedges.

I've got a ton of work to do...


I stopped at the local Office Depot and looked at the room partitions... I might be off base here, but they seemed to be nearly as pricy as the Auralex maxrooms. I may just build a permanent vocal booth in the corner where the front door is, as it is blocked and no longer used. That would be the SE corner of the room if you look at the diagram.
 
Steve, try looking around for USED partitions.

A few places in Austin sell those types of items and can be had at a substantial discount.
 
I may just build a permanent vocal booth in the corner where the front door is, as it is blocked and no
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Hello Steve, John and Michael pretty much covered the building end. I can only add my own .02. In light of the recent set of fires resulting in loss of life, reasons as they may, suggest that when you say you are blocking a door, I might advise being certain that this may not be a safety concern. I don't mean to imply anything, as I am sure you have lived there long enough to know your own house. I only know that Murphy does not discriminate against studios or homes. Especially if this is a multistory building. Just make sure this doesn't hamper IMMEDIATE escape in the event of fire, or anything else.
Sorry Steve, I don't like to be a "safety alerter", but remember, to attain a soundproof enclosure, means it is also an airtight enclosure. Except for ventilation. Even in a booth. Properly designed and implemented HVAC, or fans, or what have you, is the only air supply and return which penetrates the shell. So this leads to dealing with not only inherent noise, but the actual ventilation as well. No power, no air.
One thing, failure due to power outage sets the stage for a series of events that you cannot always foresee. Unlike areas that are used for living, studios do not normally have windows. Hence your blocking of them. Doors also. No power. No see. In total darkness. Maybe not in your case. However, for homestudio builders, these types of things allow for deep compromise when it comes to safety. Common sense is not an issue, and John has much more direct experience with these , Michael is more than qualified to speak on these very things also. Some laugh at me and tell me its their business what they do. No one laughs when probability knocks on the door. So I have a few suggestions.

Exit safety. IF you build a serious booth, make sure you cannot get trapped, by proper selection of hardware. Codes here are very strict about that. I know this is in your home. And you will do what you please. You may want to onsider using non-locking LEVER latchsets where applicable. Anywhere there is an exit, from the control room or the studio, make sure you have a fail safe exit. Especially considering the structure of your home, and the nature of homestudio construction. By the sound of it, you have other sets of doors with glass panels. Does natural light enter through those? Then you can see if the power goes out, correct? It may not even be an issue with your layout.

Ventilation system...you could write a book about it. Here, it is something rarely displayed as is usually covered by finish materials by the time people post a pic. I have yet to see a completely detailed vocal booth here myself, as related to finished ventilation schemes. Or door details. Or threshold detais. Each person has his own set of site and budget limitaions, so a one size fits all is not an option for all. And very rarily will some one draw it out and post itl Lots of people here have solved this one in their own way. Some I've seen leave a lot to be desired. Something to think about anyway. Do a search here. I know there are lots of threads concerning this. Since the room is part of the house, I assume there is household HVAC to the room. Or seperate? This has a bearing on your overall soundproofing stategy also. Why go to the trouble achieving a certain Sound transmission class rating in your floor, only to have it negated by your HVAC.

Last, Keep a flashlight handy at the least.

I won't go on.
Cheers
fitz
:)
 
Very, VERY good and important saftey tips!
Thanks Fitz, for reminding us all, that saftey ALWAYS comes first, even if it means sacrificing some STC rating or isolation.

I did have my plans reviewed by the fire department for ingress and egress, and while approved, you got me thinking about power failures, and being able to see.

While daylight could flood in through the control room doors, and basically into every room from there, (save the kitchen and bath) it would be pretty dark at night in my place.

Hmmm....
I may have to think about some kind of back-up battery lighting for nightime emergencies. :( At the very least, some lighted exit signs? I know they're not required in residential construction, but, man, it sure would be cheap insurance.
 
Hello Michael, and thanks. Those issues are not mentioned here too often. And damn I hate to be the only safety exponent here. Its lonely. The fact of the matter is very aparent, if one looks at a local city paper to read of a local fire. Every day. It happens, plain and simple.

Anytime you have a client, you and your property become liable. Regardless if your in a home studio. In the event someone did something as simple as trip in the dark, goodby property, unless you are insured. Build without permits and you may void your insurance. Plus, it puts you at ease, if alerted to anything the local BID sees that is possibly dangerous or against code. Anyway Michael, you know me, I am definitely not an expert on most of the subject matter I stick my nose into. Ha! Like most people, I have an opinion, but lately, I am seeing a side of studio at home, especially if its for hire, where the studio owner puts himself and property at risk. Negating as much of that risk as possible is common sense, at the least.
fitz:)
 
You're right on the money Rick.
Think about your house. Any house for that matter.
How many doors would you have to go through to get outside if there were a fire?
In my house, under the worst circumstances, I'd have to go through 3 doors total. And thats if I were in a closet! Otherwise 2, and in most cases, one.

In my studio, if the front doors were blocked by fire, people would have to go through 3 sets of double iso doors to get out. That's really 6 doors! Kinda scary if you think about it. Of course the walls end up having like a 2 hour fire rating. Which is exceptional.

I think the best thing to do before starting a session, is to make sure everyone knows where the exits are as well as where the fire extingushers(sp) are too.

Sorry to hijack your thread Steve, but safety doesn't get mentioned around here enough, and I thought since we were on the subject.....
 
Thanks guys....

You really are right. If there were a fire in house, there would be no way out from the studio except the front door.

So.... plan B!

I'm thinking I can still build a vocal booth in the same corner. I can leave the door functional but treat it with sound proofing sheet material. The door would still open in an emergency. I think I can do this and still be safe... I've got to get done with the current room treatments and then think about it.

Ok... an update: I spent roughly 20 hours of work this weekend working in this room. The windows are all done, all the wedges are up and the bass traps are installed. Boy is it ever dark when the lights go out! Speaking of lights... the main light fixture is an old timey ceiling fan with four bulbs. I had thought about track lighting but the more I think... the more I want to maintain some of the old home character. I may just leave the light as is. Of course the fan is not on when recording (think leslie effect!) I have additional antique style floor lamps for more lighting.

Tonight.... the T-fusers.
I bought some "liquid nails" for the installation of the T-fusers. I used the 3m spray adhesive for all the wedges and bass traps. It works really good.

I will post some pictures when done. I have a session later this week so I've got to get it in gear!
 
Michael Jones said:

I may have to think about some kind of back-up battery lighting for nightime emergencies. :( At the very least, some lighted exit signs?
Click to expand...

Here's a thought: Get a UPS. One of those 625VA jobs by Belkin or something like that. This will provide anything from 5 to 40 minutes of power, depends on loading.

If you wire your lighting carefully, you could have a small number of key lights wired permanently to the UPS on their own circuit. Then, if the power goes out, some of the lights stay on. Enough to see to get out :)

Another reason to have one of these is (obviously) your PC, multitracker, hard drives, synths -- anything that would object to the power being cut out from under them ... run a "UPS protected" feed round with the normal mains. Mark it as "Low Current Loads Only", as the UPS will trip off if overloaded!

Mike.
 
What sort of base boards do you have?
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What sort of heating do you have in the room?
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oops... forgot to answer this.

The baseboards are period accurate so this is a consideration.

The HVAC system is a central forced air. It is large tubular insulated ducting. There is essentially no sound transmission from the house thru this system. There is no air return vent... just two large ceiling vents coming in.
 
There is no air return vent... just two large ceiling vents coming in.
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Hello Steve, are you sure one of these is not a return? The reason I ask is this.

If you totaly seal the room up. the supply cannot operate. Its like putting a bottle to your mouth and blowing. Nothing happens. You cannot pressuize it. The only air that will enter the room, is the same as any leaks out of the room. At least in theory. And if you in an area that has high humidity in the summer, with lights, equipment, and people a controlroom will get very warm very quickly. Put 3 or 4 people in a studio that is air tight and no air return, you can guess the outcome. No one likes to play with sweat dripping down on their instruments.
Check those supply ducts, and make sure one is not a return, as it seems odd to have 2 supplys and no return. It that is true, then maybe you can rerout the ducting from one to the return plenum. Or something like that.
Well, my second .02
fitz
 
Rick...

They are both inflow vents. I am going to contact a HVAC guy to install a return. Actually, I think I could put a return vent in hooked up to insulated soft circular duct that simply goes twenty feet or so and have it empty into the attic. This would allow the room to "breath". My wife told me that I'm not a HVAC guy and that this wouldn't work. I guess I could just run it to the top of the central unit and drop it in... This is not sealed and is simply in a big old closet in the center of the house. There is only one return in the entire house. That is in the living room and is a big rectangular return vent with a filter. Interestingly enough this simply goes into the closet where the unit sits. It is not airtight as you can see right up into the attic here... That is what I mean by the unit is not sealed.

BTW... After roughly thirty hours of work, I've finished all of the window elimination, treatments, wedge and Lernd installs and the T-Fusers. The bass traps really helped the inherent bassiness of the room. All of the fast slap back is gone. Now I have to reinstall all of the equipment. I bought some of those black plastic ties/cinches to make cable runs neat. For example, I'm going to route all drum cables together...sorta like a mini snake. I'm thinking that I can buy some conduit/channel that I can easily install along the baseboards and run cables to eliminate ground clutter.... but not this week. This week I'll make do with the plastic ties and laying cables next to baseboards. Does it hurt anything to have your headphone distribution cables running with your signal cables? I wouldn't think so because neither of them is powered.


Am I having fun yet?
;)
 
Actually, I think I could put a return vent in hooked up to insulated soft circular duct that simply goes twenty feet or so and have it empty into the attic. This would allow the room to
Click to expand...

Hello Steve, well I agree with your wife about this. The air returns from the room via a duct to the fan plenum. The fan simply pulls the same air from the room back through the HVAC unit and sends it via the supply ducts. Under normal cirmumstances if you simply terminate the duct open to the attic you are heating and cooling the attic, and making more work for the supply side, as the air is not being directly pulled from the studio, it is being pushed out. It sounds as though your closet ceiling is open as a fresh air supply, which is also a dump for the return. I see what your saying about your attict is acting as a large plenum. However, the air that should be pulled from the room, will be at a different temperature than that in the attic. This takes more energy. I'm no expert Steve, far from it, and maybe someone else can toss a couple of .02 in here. I would consult a HVAC specialist, and see. Its awfully hard to describe some of these things here. So I'm gettin out of this one while the gettins' good :D But great pains are taken in pro studios to achieve proper HVAC distribution.
There is a sound rating for HVAC design, which I believe they call NC(noise control?) and for each rating, much attention is paid to plenum, ducting paths, registers, etc.
It all depends on what you will put up with on your recordings. The mic detects air disturbances, which is exactly what the HVAC is designed to do. Its how you control these disturbances, and attenuate unit produced noise that will determine how much the mic detects. There is some great info in Alton Everests book, The Master Handbook of Acoustics. Among other sources. Again, this all depends on how far you want to take it. Its also your home, so your the only one that can dermine what you want and can do.
fitz:)
 
Yeah.. I understand. I'm going to give my friendly HVAC guy a call. He is a friend of mine and a straight shooter. It was not anticipated at the time we installed the central air unit that this room would be sealed off so to speak...
 
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