Lost Letter to The Camel Comm.

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rayc

rayc

retroreprobate
Hi Folks.
Just a minute or so of a piece we're working on. We're uncertain as to our progress so would appreciate some commentary regarding the mix, the instrumentation and any problems or positives thus far.
The song is called lost letters & it's a rework of a previous tune but with new lyrics, melody, solo instrument and stuff like that.

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4214178&q=hi
Thanks in anticipation.
 
Hey rayc - good strong song here. Very nice mood created by the vocals and instruments. Getting a bit of a Gordon Lightfoot vibe from the music (his later stuff) with added instrumental embellishments.

Vocals - They are sounding really smooth in the delivery. Could come up a little. I'm getting a few ssss's from sibilance (sp?) around the edges. Not sure if eq'ing it a up bit in the upper middle range would help it come up in the mix (in lieu of just volume knob).

Cello - nice even levels, good tone, but taking up a lot of space and filling up the bottom end of the tune. Maybe eq it with reference to the bass. Not sure where those two would crossover but they cold use some individual space. Wonder if panning it slightly more would help - maybe.

Guitar - nice tones on this - meaty I would call it. I would check to see if the bottom end on it is adding to the overall bass issues.

Flute - a bit strong in places but well played as always. It is a dynamic instrument so it will be up and down.

I would try messing around with eq and panning a bit on the instruments - mainly bass and cello.

I notice this mix is nice and even but not over compressed. Maybe the flute popping out on ocassion but that's about it.....

Is this a work in progress or do you have a full version of this?

:D :) :D :)
 
Ido1957,
Thanks for the excellent detail. It's a work in progress & will probably need retracking of the vocals & solos as Terry sent me those on a CD & I imported them.
I've been playing with the EQ carving. & since you mentioned it have just remembered that I downloaded a freq analysis plugin that can overlap 2 tracks for comparison so it would make sense to try that eh?
Here's a classic for you. Terry's flute is getting worked on so that solo is actually an effected recorder!
This one may take some time as I'm waiting for some instructions from Terry.
Thanks again - the detail will set me on the right track - ta.
 
A last bump effort & a new, tidy, picture of my recording/workstation set up. A centre pic then one either side showing the Truvox tape machine & the mic & accessories cupboard.
Finally a shot from another direction showing the true chaos.
 

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rayc said:
Hi Folks.
Just a minute or so of a piece we're working on. We're uncertain as to our progress so would appreciate some commentary regarding the mix, the instrumentation and any problems or positives thus far.
The song is called lost letters & it's a rework of a previous tune but with new lyrics, melody, solo instrument and stuff like that.

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4214178&q=hi
Thanks in anticipation.
Click to expand...


Hey rayc,

Sorry I haven't commented earlier, I have been busier than usual!

The whole mix (maybe intentional) sounds like it was recorded in an auditorium!! What I mean by that is that it sounds very heavily drenched in an aura of "Hall Reverb",.. I don't think it is but a little too trippy like in the intro!!
The vocals warmed up as they progressed into the tune with a few ssssss's earlier in the piece!.The vocals on a re-listen seem to be too far back in the mix and would benefit greatly in a boost by a few db's.
The wind instrument, I'm guessing a flute of soughts is a little waivering in it's attack, maybe a cut in the mids to smoothen the tone a little!

This tune reminds me of some early Pink Floyd (Syd Barrett era) music......typical of what I would expect from you rayc!! :D

A little work on the mix and you have a very trippy tune rayc!! :)

Gorty
 
ray,


Had a listen to your tune, man. I dig! It has this Morrisey, Cureish, Velvet Underground, avant garde 70/80sish thing going on. The instrumentation is very interesting. I wanna say it feels almost Celtic in some parts.

What's the track sheet look like for this song? I'm really interested in finding out what instruments you used here.

I'm always learning about arranging, so I can't advise too much there.

Mix wise, I don't really think I can say anything that hasn't already been said. Perhaps just bringing up the vocals may be worth mentioning again. However, I've heard alot of mixes that had the vocals that low in the mix, but where still acceptable.

So I suppose it's a matter of taste, what the song asks for and any historical context.

The FX *may* be questionable. In fact, some might say this song is slathered in reverb, delays, FX, but to be honest, I can't imagine it any other way. So in other words, I think the FX work very nicely for this particular song. :D

Good stuff man!
 
rayc said:
Hi Folks.
Just a minute or so of a piece we're working on. We're uncertain as to our progress so would appreciate some commentary regarding the mix, the instrumentation and any problems or positives thus far.
The song is called lost letters & it's a rework of a previous tune but with new lyrics, melody, solo instrument and stuff like that.

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4214178&q=hi
Thanks in anticipation.
Click to expand...
I like the setting with the vocalist and drummer in the background. It has a live Jethro Tull - Aqualung flavor to it. It would be nice to hear the vocals come forward in a crescendo type deal with the whole mix building in the middle into a driving rock piece.
 
Very verby...has a late sixties vibe. (not a bad thing...)
I think it deserves to be worked on...tightened up some maybe. Good tones on the instruments, and I like the vocal delivery. Keep it up man.... :D
 
Hey nice tune here rayc. . The reverb certainly gives it that atmosphere. The vocal is a bit quiet at the start. Nice melodies, I love that flute, spine chilling... Cool song man I enjoyed it
 
Hey man, the tune is nice and would be an enjoyable listen once finalized. It has a dreamy tone to it. Really really nice reverb effect to make it pretty retro'ish. :)

Few suggestions:
The bass is a little rumbly 'coz of maybe too much reverb.
The guitars and strings are fine with the reverb. They sound cool.
But the reverb on the vox, I would recommend to cut by half. The vox should be wet but more understandable.
And maybe raise the cymbal hits and hats. It will give it more presence. :)

These are just my suggestions. Some may prefer it as it is. :)
 
Thanks you folks,
Some excellent perspectives, constructive suggestions and flattering comparisons have been offered.
I've reposted the sample for a A - B. the 1st part is as you've heard it, the second is as dry as I could make it. the only instrument I left reverb on was the drums & then only a little.

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=4214178&q=hi

I've not adjusted any levels as yet - looking at the swamp mix still but have done some EQing.
Let me know which stands up better OR a combo of the 2. Oh, there was a tiny bit of Sonic Maximizer on the final mix.
Terry's vocals & recorder were emailed to me as audio with effects in place so I can't dry that up though he is very soon to retrack dry to tape so that I can tweak & undo as required. terry also has a pop screen now so the sssing should be reduced.
Ido1957 - I did some EQ carving and you were right about the guitar hogging the bass's space.
Gorty - Thanks for the ideas, I'll be tweaking levels as soon as I get the new vox in.
Lee - I'll be interested in your opinion of the dry mix. the instrument list is:
Roland TR505 Rhythm Computer, Vantage bass through a Yamaha FX 500, Epi Sheraton straight in, tremeloed & sharp chopped, Fender 12 string acoustic, 333's 6 string acoustic, overdriven Hammond style organ on a Casio keyboard, Fender 12 played above 12th fret for mandolin effect, Dolphin cello. All instruments Mic'd through: a sony electret 12b & a le Grande dynamic. Terry's mic is a gooun but I can't recall what.
NYMorningstar - I like the crescendo idea. I've already structured in a drop back so a rev up after that might be tasty. Ta.
Dogman - I'll flex the mix muscle to tighten things a little. Thanks
Bulls Hit - Terry did a good flute inpersonation with the recorder & effects eh? Thanks for the ++ words.
bigbubba - I'll try you ideas. I kept your ideas from my last piece as an alternate mix. It was almost as popular with firends as the final mix so your ideas have currency.
Please, have a listen to the A - B folks, this is fairly crucial I'd say at this stage.
T H A N K S.
 
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This is very artistic. Unusual, creative, even moving. The cello and flute give it a ethereal feel that helps open up the listener's receptiveness to the words. Ray, I'm gonna be totally honest about the verb. Get rid of all the reverb when you track. ALL of it. Don't use verb when you track. Require your bandmates to do the same. Then when you mix put verb in to taste, then cut it way back again so you can barely hear it. Verb is artificial and when there's too much it interferes with the music's real expression. It's sugar coating. Hope this doesn't come across as mean spirited because my intention is the opposite. :) Your music is excellent but every track I can remember has been awash in verb. You have a reverb addiction you need to deal with. :D

Tim
 
Timothy Lawler,
Thanks mate. You can be frank anytime. Francine even. I understand re: tracking dry. I've been doing so for a ew months now. Most of stuff on this tunes were recorded a year or more ago well prior to my coming to the forum for info & help. Did you get a chance to listen to the 2nd half of the bit on soundclick? It's much drier though still needs a towelling.
Again, thanks for the direction and asistance.
 
Finally got a chance to listen to the A-B track. They are as different as night and day. :) :) The reverb on the A part does give it some color and a vibe but it also washes away some of the clarity.

The drier version is much lighter, clearer, a bit brighter and seems to carry the instruments better. They are more audible and discernable - especially the cello and the tremelo guitar.

The recorder sounds like it has some verb on it still and the vocals could come forward a bit still.

The dry mix is pretty good as is, except I would say the vocals could come up and forward.

Tim's recs are good - I try to follow that rule with reverb....turn it up until you can just hear it then turn it down a bit. Somehow it doesn't always work that way though....

:eek: :o :D :rolleyes: :)
 
RayC -

I'm listening in headphones. Very dark and mysterious sounding. Cool!

I think this is an excellent song, so don't take what paltry criticisms I can muster as anything negative, since it's all stylistic; the instruments are all in tune and played together in a thoughtfully arranged and polished way.

I'd try to mix this in a way that keeps instruments out of the way of your voice (and other instruments). The cello and the bass guitar, for instance, seem to walk on each other occasionally. When that happens while your delivering a vocal, it's distracting (imho). I'd try to swell the cello and guitars in between vocal lines so that they are weaving in and out of your vocals, or ebbing and flowing dynamically. That kind of push and pull can give real weight to an arrangement.

I think the vocs could come up several db.

Kick sounds a little clicky to me.



Nice work on the snare, by the way.


-Casey
 
Worth another listen or two

I listened to rayc's Lost Letters this morning on my way to work. This is one of my many favorites from Pygmy Beat.

I thought I would bump this thread, and encourage new members to have a listen. Have a relisten if you have heard it!

This is a great piece of music IMHO. The lyrics tell a real good story - as well as any I have heard. The vocals deliver it with smoothness and feeling. The instruments paint a lush background for the story - especially nice are the cello parts.

I think the mix sounds pretty nice too....

So have a listen and comment on the song if you wish - my hope is that you will enjoy it as much as I (always) do.......

Great job Ray and Terry!
(Hope you don't mind if I bump this...)

Here's the link to save you some time. :D
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=469622&songID=4214178

:D :) :D :)
 
Thanks Ido1957!
Very kind words.
Terry is actually considering/working on, amongst other things, a re write of the lyrics to this piece at present.
Probably has the tinker urge at present.
People seem rather taken with the new tone and power of your newer guitar set up/rig/chain. I agree with them - excellent tone & playing.
 
Great lyrics in this one Ray. I can hear the vocals pretty clearly, could maybe come up a tad but i like the delivery as always. The arrangement is what shines to me on this one. Very well thought out and really original sounding to me. Flute sounds great as always. I think it's a string sound (pretty sure itis but don't want to embarass myself if im way off) going thorugh this one that really caught my ear, has a really touching sound to me. Really liked it, sad i missed this one the first time around as it will get some plays from me for sure.

Take care

gary
 
I get a feeling of Pink Floyd and maybe even the Beatles in this tune. Really nice stuff rayc. I'll have to go back and listen to some more of your music. ;)
 
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