loser - remix

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heatmiser

heatmiser

mr. green christmas
Hey - I put this one up a week or so ago and based on the advice I received, I retracked a few things and remixed this from the ground up. If you have a chance, please give it a go and let me know what you think...

- new lead vocals - obviously doubled - maybe they sit better than the prior single take, but has that odd robot quality now - interesting though?
- retracked electric rhythm guitars - now in tune and clearer
- brought the kick forward - still not the best kick sound, but more audible at least
- countless other changes - mostly minor

SoundClick artist: kingseesar - loser

Thanks,
Pete
 
I liked the doubled vocals - fuller sounding. The rhythm sounds good. Kick is okay now.
Good performance overall (still). Nice lead! :D
 
Thanks for checking it out ido, and for the reassurances. There are aspects of this that I really like, but obviously not something with broad appeal or anything.

I gotta stop covering dead tunes...can't....stop....
 
Hey Pete, if it makes you happy covering Dead tunes, I don't see why you should stop. Besides it's part of the learning process. This sounds damn near perfect to me. I really like what you did with the vocals. Drums sound pretty good to me. Mix is nicely balanced. Nice work!
 
Thanks a lot joey. I'm pretty cool with the chorus vocals now, but the verses never come out as I would like on these things.

Yes, as long as I record something, I learn. I would prefer to do nothing but originals, but I just have such a hard time coming up with material. I grew up listening to the dead, dead cover bands, etc, so it seems natural to me, but at the same time, it seems kinda passe now, y'know?
 
Hey there...

I like the mix a lot - think you could teach a few things to some of the other posters here about how to make something sound "punchy". :)

You may yet change my mind about the GD... :eek:

Good stuff! :drunk:
 
Oh, I was expecting the Beck song, which you would do well covering by the way. The new mix sounds okay. I think the vocals could come up. The snare seems kind of far back in the mix and ambient. I can't describe it... kind of like the kick notes are "|" and the snare notes are like "," if that makes any sense. Hahaha. Although I assume you know what I meant when I said "far back in the mix"... Other than that it sounds great!
 
Thanks so much Armistice. I think my plan a while back was to expose hr dwellars to this kind of material knowing for the most part that the GD are hated here. Unfortunately, my versions aren't a fair representation which sort of undermines my plot to convert people! Thanks again.

Squibble - thanks for checking in man. Yes, I should've included a "not a Beck cover" disclaimer. This tune isn't even a big fav among dead fans from what I recall, but I like it. On the first run through, I felt the snare to be overly prominent, so I did pull it back quite a bit this time. Although I still ain't wild about the snare sound, I find it blends better being back a bit like this. I do like the toms though! And yes, your symbols did make sense...sorta...on the first mix the snare was "|" while the kick was ",".
 
heatmiser said:
Thanks so much Armistice. I think my plan a while back was to expose hr dwellars to this kind of material knowing for the most part that the GD are hated here. Unfortunately, my versions aren't a fair representation which sort of undermines my plot to convert people! Thanks again.

Squibble - thanks for checking in man. Yes, I should've included a "not a Beck cover" disclaimer. This tune isn't even a big fav among dead fans from what I recall, but I like it. On the first run through, I felt the snare to be overly prominent, so I did pull it back quite a bit this time. Although I still ain't wild about the snare sound, I find it blends better being back a bit like this. I do like the toms though! And yes, your symbols did make sense...sorta...on the first mix the snare was "|" while the kick was ",".
Click to expand...

Well I guess it's entirely what you want anyway. :D
I agree, the toms are great in this mix.
 
I think this is good. Kick and snare seem fine to me. Bass is there. Guitars sound good. Vocals are good. No nits from me. Well done. :)

What I usually do with double-tracked vocals is stack em in the middle, and keep one take significantly lower than the other. For me, it helps thicken the vocal track without making it sound like two takes. Sometimes I'll pan the lower take just a hair off the main vocal take for a ever so slight chorus effect. It works for me. Give it a try.
 
Not much to add beyond what's been said. the thing with double tracked vocals that are hardpanned is that they're usually gonna sound a little weird to people with earbuds/headphones. These sounded OK, but I'd be curious what it'd sound like with the vocal tracks down the center.
 
Sounds great. Nice space in the mix. How did you do the drums, the way they sit in the track, wish I could get that.
 
macle said:
Sounds great. Nice space in the mix. How did you do the drums, the way they sit in the track, wish I could get that.
Click to expand...

Thank you macle. I appreciate it.

So sad though, I definitely think the drums are the best sounding part of my mixes lately, and they're the only thing I don't actually do myself!

These are actually loops that I bought specifically for my Roland 2400 recorder called Discrete Drums. Unlike most loops though, they come as 8 separate tracks - Kick, snare, stereo toms, stereo overheads and stereo room mics. Although they sound pretty decent untouched, I typically fiddle with the levels of all 8 tracks, then sometimes add moderate EQ and compression depending on the tune. This one has a lot of overhead mics mixed in. The downside is I have to arrange the drums from a limited number of patterns and fills in advance, so not so much control - you have to build the song around the drums this way.
 
Greg_L said:
I think this is good. Kick and snare seem fine to me. Bass is there. Guitars sound good. Vocals are good. No nits from me. Well done. :)

What I usually do with double-tracked vocals is stack em in the middle, and keep one take significantly lower than the other. For me, it helps thicken the vocal track without making it sound like two takes. Sometimes I'll pan the lower take just a hair off the main vocal take for a ever so slight chorus effect. It works for me. Give it a try.
Click to expand...

Thank you for checking it out again Greg. Yes, when you recommended doubling the vox, I thought that was what you meant...not panning them wide for effect like I did. I tried panning both takes dead center and found it just as chorusey only narrower. I think that means my two takes aren't similar enough?

Anyway, I did try again to do it as you describe and have the results below if anyone wants to check...thanks!

TripleM said:
Not much to add beyond what's been said. the thing with double tracked vocals that are hardpanned is that they're usually gonna sound a little weird to people with earbuds/headphones. These sounded OK, but I'd be curious what it'd sound like with the vocal tracks down the center.
Click to expand...

Thanks - I always appreciate your advice man. I do a lot of doubling as an intentional effect, but think it may be out of place on this tune. Based on yours and Greg's advice, I have remixed with the vocals centered with one beneath the other...still chorusey though. Any lower on the 2nd take and I lost the effect of 2 tracks entirely. You may satisfy your curiosity with the link below...thanks!

SoundClick artist: kingseesar - loser - centered vocals

Link at top remains with vocals panned 50/50...
 
Dude I like the hell out of the tune. I haven't heard this Dead song either but I think you did well with it as you also did with the China Cat song. I would like to hear maybe a CD of the old Dead songs with your style. It would be a cool transition from their style to yours of this stuff. I like the song Touch of Grey if you're interested. Have a good one Heat.
 
Thanks as always trump. Glad you enjoyed it.

Touch of Grey - yeah that was I think their only top 10 hit coming more than 20 years after they formed. It's a decent tune, but it has negative connotations for me as it marked the beginning of a new era. No more small civic center/auditorium shows...only huge arenas and football stadiums from then on. There was a sense at the time that they had finally sold out or whatever. But good for them - they deserved some commercial success for all of their efforts I guess.
 
The chorus is the result of doubling. I found it increases exponentially with the # of tracks. Although it works cool for guitars it seems to have a different affect on vocals. The centering sounds good - the chorus isn't too bad. I wonder how the pros get that without (almost) any chorus affect??? This is my fav mix of the ones I've heard.
 
Thanks for giving it another spin ido.

Yeah, I'm guessing that slight (or not so slight in my case) variations in timing and pitch between the two takes creates the warble. Again, I like it as an intentional effect sometimes (particularly when hard panned), but on this I think I wanted a more natural sound.
 
heatmiser said:
Thank you macle. I appreciate it.

So sad though, I definitely think the drums are the best sounding part of my mixes lately, and they're the only thing I don't actually do myself!

These are actually loops that I bought specifically for my Roland 2400 recorder called Discrete Drums. Unlike most loops though, they come as 8 separate tracks - Kick, snare, stereo toms, stereo overheads and stereo room mics. Although they sound pretty decent untouched, I typically fiddle with the levels of all 8 tracks, then sometimes add moderate EQ and compression depending on the tune. This one has a lot of overhead mics mixed in. The downside is I have to arrange the drums from a limited number of patterns and fills in advance, so not so much control - you have to build the song around the drums this way.
Click to expand...

They definitely sound good, nice feel. I think they fit in with the track though, they don't outshine it. That's why I asked about them, it's so hard to get that. I think a regular listener would just say nice sound overall.
 
Love the drums, dude. Fake or not, I love em'. Nice, fat and juicy. I think the mix is awesome. I'd like to hear it with the vocals down the center, with the double-track about 50% volume. In order for it to work, though, the vocals tracks have to be very similar. If they're not, ya usually just get mess. I think your vocals are good enough and fat enough to just have one right down the middle, but that's just me.

Great track, dude. Keep em' coming!
 
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