looking for some inspiration. what can sonar do?

[minofifa]

Well this past month i have been evaluating sonar 3. Before that i had been using cool edit pro 2.0. I really like sonar 3's all in one idea. Up until today i was pumped about sonar when i get home next week but now i'm wondering is it worth it? I really want to get into midi becaus i think it has potential. Unfortunately, the midi samples that come with sonar 3 and various sound clips that i have heard from people sound like ass. just awful. what is the point of using midi synths when they sound so dumb?

Do any of you guys have material that you've done posted on the web? I'de like to check out some projects that use sonar to its full potential, midi, dxi and audio.

I guess i'm just wondering why spend twice as much for a program that will do the same stuff for me. Any biased opinios would be much appreciated!

Thanks

 

[AlChuck]

How good a MIDI recording can sound depends on how good the MIDI module(s) that play(s) the parts sound(s). It'll never sound like much when sent to a typical PC soundcard MIDI chip or the Microsoft Wavetable Software Synthesizer.

 

[Sklathill]

If you want to know what can be done with vsampler in Sonar 3 Producer, I put a demo of stuff on www.apocalypsewow.com All midi and softsamplers, with a little bit of Roland XV-3080 and Proteus PK-6 thrown in.

Edit: (just fixed the URL)

 

[dachay2tnr]

If you'd like, check out "How 'Bout Us." http://home.comcast.net/~jcaporaso/music/

This is a combination of audio and midi. Bass and Piano are midi DXi synths. Drums are done via Roland V-Drums. Vocals, horns, and guitar fill are audio.

All done using Sonar.

 

[minofifa]

How good a MIDI recording can sound depends on how good the MIDI module(s) that play(s) the parts sound(s). It'll never sound like much when sent to a typical PC soundcard MIDI chip or the Microsoft Wavetable Software Synthesizer.

so i don't want my sound card to play midi audio? or, do i want the midi info to be processed my something else then the audio is sent tot he sound card? This other somethign is the Dxi softsynth right? is the vSampler considered a soft synth.

This is a combination of audio and midi. Bass and Piano are midi DXi synths. Drums are done via Roland V-Drums. Vocals, horns, and guitar fill are audio.

cool tunes. ok i'm sold, the piano definately sounded good enough for me as well as the drums and bass. what dxi synths did you use, do they come with sonar? i tried to use one but it was a demo version and it didn't work anyways.

If you want to know what can be done with vsampler in Sonar 3 Producer, I put a demo of stuff on www.apocalypsewow.com. All midi and softsamplers, with a little bit of Roland XV-3080 and Proteus PK-6 thrown in.

I'm definately digging the orchestra sounds, especially the strings. This is something i've wanted to get into for a while. So you did this with the Vsampler that comes with sonar 3? no gigastudio etc...? You have heard of garriton strings right? can they be applied with the Vsampler or do you need another sampler to run that library.

thanks for all of the help guys. I'm on that plateau of moving up from straight recording but some areas are a bit hazy.

 

[dachay2tnr]

cool tunes. ok i'm sold, the piano definately sounded good enough for me as well as the drums and bass. what dxi synths did you use, do they come with sonar? i tried to use one but it was a demo version and it didn't work anyways.

I'm at work and don't have access to the file. My recollection is that the piano was from the Edirol VSC that comes with Sonar. The bass might have been a sound font using Live Synth Pro - LSP does not come with Sonar (although they did package a demo version of it with Sonar 2, I think).

If you want to know for certain, let me know and I'll check it when I get home.

 

[Sklathill]

Yeah, Garritan is pretty much the ultimate, of course there are others competing on the same level. I don't have that kind of money, though. What you're listening to is a much cheaper combination of Miroslav Vitous Orchestra (AKAI) mini and Prosamples classic orchestra. I got the Miroslav for ~200 and the Prosamples discs, if you shop around, can be had for 30-40 dollars.

Honestly, that's my favorite thing about Vsampler...going to the music store and grabbing a random Prosamples or other cheap sample format disc and trying out new sounds. It's kind of addicting...

 

[minofifa]

Yeah, Garritan is pretty much the ultimate, of course there are others competing on the same level. I don't have that kind of money, though. What you're listening to is a much cheaper combination of Miroslav Vitous Orchestra (AKAI) mini and Prosamples classic orchestra. I got the Miroslav for ~200 and the Prosamples discs, if you shop around, can be had for 30-40 dollars.

i was checking out the garriton strings the other day and it seems to be 249 for the personal orchestra. you've spent about that as well. maybe they have like a pro version that they do not advertise or something.

I'm at work and don't have access to the file. My recollection is that the piano was from the Edirol VSC that comes with Sonar. The bass might have been a sound font using Live Synth Pro - LSP does not come with Sonar (although they did package a demo version of it with Sonar 2, I think).

Yeah live sinth pro is the demo that comes with sonar 3 as well. none the less i still couldn't get it to work.
ONe thing i'm not understanding is are dxi useed for midi or audio tracks? i assumed they took midi code and applied their own sound to it. In sonar you can add a dxi as an effect to an audio channel. how does that work?

 

[AlChuck]

so i don't want my sound card to play midi audio? or, do i want the midi info to be processed my something else then the audio is sent tot he sound card? This other somethign is the Dxi softsynth right? is the vSampler considered a soft synth.

The way you word this makes me suspect that you think there is some sort of audio information contained within MIDI. If so, not so! MIDI messages are instructions that tell a compliant instrument what to do and when. They tell a synth which notes to hit, and when, and how long, and how loud, and whether to apply a tremelo or vibrato, etc....

So the actual sound you hear is entirely reliant on what is responding to the MIDI messages. The MIDI synth in a typical soundcard is franky pretty awful (better at some instrument sounds than others).

Another factor I didn't mention earlier -- MIDI performances can also be somewhat stiff if you don't have reasonably good keyboard chops (or whatever alternative controller you use -- drum pads, guitar controllers, wind controllers...) and you don't take the time to edit them to improve the timing and feel. Some MIDI songs you get off the net will suffer from this. Also, some MIDI performances, like any other type of recording, might just be plain lame -- hokey, corny, goofy, idiotic -- depending on who did it. I remember a bunch of the Cakewalk tutorial files were like that a few years ago. They served their instructive purposes but, boy, I would not want to be in a band with the guy that made them...

 

[minofifa]

some MIDI performances, like any other type of recording, might just be plain lame -- hokey, corny, goofy, idiotic -- depending on who did it. I remember a bunch of the Cakewalk tutorial files were like that a few years ago. They served their instructive purposes but, boy, I would not want to be in a band with the guy that made them...

haha yeah that is what i'm talking about... sounds like somebody pushed one of the those "auto" buttons on a a 25 dollar keyboard.

and yes i do know the idea behind MIDI, the post was poorly worded on my part, sorry. what i meant was do softsynths handle midi instructions, change them to audio signal, and the sound card receives the audio signal to play like any other audio signal? or do i need two different sound cards, one that handles audio tracks and one that is more taylored to sounds produced by midi...

that wasn't any clearer at all!!! dammit!!

ok, one mroe try... is the problem in a regular sound card:
1 it's ability to make sounds produced by MIDI
2. It's ability to translate midi code into realistic sounding instruments.

 

[dachay2tnr]

what i meant was do softsynths handle midi instructions, change them to audio signal, and the sound card receives the audio signal to play like any other audio signal?

Yes. Your sound card does not even need to be midi-capable to use soft synths.

 

[wrenhunter]

That VSC piano sound is a good example. I go from the piano sound on my MIDI keyboard (eh) to the patch on the SoundBlaster (crap) to the various piano patches in the VSC soft synth (sweet).

Since you agree with the latter assessment, you will probably find (as I did) that there are lots of cool sounds that come with Sonar itself. And, as noted, with VSampler you can load in free/cheap/swell-o sounds at your leisure.