looking for acoustic/electric

[CoolCat]

I surfed a bit, 2007 this question was posted.

I'm looking for the same, around $300 to $600ish.
Only having one acoustic for 12yrs(Yamaha FG340)...I don't have much to compare to!

Wanted to add a acoustic/electric.

tried a Fishman pickup to the Yamaha which worked, but didn't like the dangling wire, and wanted something with the built inpreamp/eq,tuner.
took this back. Don't want to drill and cut my Yammie either.

next then brought home a Fender CD140SCE this weekend, from GC.
the Fender seemed to have the same electronics as the Martin at $669 and had solid Spruce top.
Not sure I like how it plays, but again...anything feels a bit odd being new & different. Didn't want to commit yet.

Don't really know much about various brands. Reading about wood, basics.
Not expecting a D28, but would like to hear any inputs about various brands and maybe even some smaller company brands that may have a good cost with higher quality.

Probably 60% just playing and maybe 40% of the time to record with.
No live gigging, no case needed etc..

Seems Takimine was ok'd in 2007...

 

[acidrock]

Just try them out.In that price range you basically have to seperate the wheat from the chaff.Unless you're playing live don't worry too much about the electronics,you're always going to be better off micing an acoustic for recording.
For the best value I would look at used guitars.

 

[Washburn100]

I've been shopping for the same thing. I recently tried some Godin Seagulls and love them. Great sound and nice playing action, lots of configurations. VERY reasonably priced. Have a surf:
http://www.seagullguitars.com/intro.htm

 

[acidrock]

I've been shopping for the same thing. I recently tried some Godin Seagulls and love them. Great sound and nice playing action, lots of configurations. VERY reasonably priced. Have a surf:
http://www.seagullguitars.com/intro.htm

Funny,I was going to mention Seagull.I have a Seagull 12 string with an L.R.Baggs preamp that I love.I've played a few nice ones over the years.

 

[CoolCat]

i'll check those out.

this laminate thing...

what is typically underneath the laminate backs?
plywood? how does one know what to look for, solid versus laminate?

 

[Washburn100]

From what I understand, there is nothing underneath the laminate in a Seagull. They use three layers of cherry laminated together to make 1 thicker piece for the sides and back. It is much easier to form the sides with thinner layers of wood. So the cherry is formed to make the sides, then 3 of these are laminated or glued together to make it the finished thickness. Cheaper guitars will just laminate a veneer onto plywood.

It is the solid top and type of wood that is the most important part for sound quality

 

[muttley600]

From what I understand, there is nothing underneath the laminate in a Seagull. They use three layers of cherry laminated together to make 1 thicker piece for the sides and back. It is much easier to form the sides with thinner layers of wood. So the cherry is formed to make the sides, then 3 of these are laminated or glued together to make it the finished thickness. Cheaper guitars will just laminate a veneer onto plywood.

It is the solid top and type of wood that is the most important part for sound quality

No that isn't how it is done.

Laminates in general are constructed of odd numbers of timber which are laid up with the grain at 90 degrees to the adjacent layer to "kill" the grain. Thats why you always have an odd number as the outside face and reverse want to have the grain orientation going the same way. On cheaper plywood a rotary cut veneer is used that is literally peeled from the log like a giant pencil sharpener.

Most laminate guitar ribs and backs are made by a technique called postforming where the thinner layers of veneer are clamped onto formers and heat and glued are used to get them to hold the shape. Usually three or five ply or layers are used and the same principle applies. In other words odd numbers and kill the grain. It is actually really hard to get plywood to form the shape of the ribs once it is made up which is why postforming is used.

As far as tone is concerned don't overly worry about it in your price range but get a solid spruce top as a major preference.

 

[CoolCat]

So when I read a spec on a guitar and it says

example
>Solid Spruce top
>Rosewood laminate back and sides

This would imply all "layers" are rosewood?


That seems to be better than what I was thinking, which was like a furniture veneer over particle board type thing.

I saw a Epiphone Texan '64 reissue with solid top and back, $449 in GC add.


Checked out a few Takamines tonight, EG523xc, EG5330sc, Alvarez AJ60sc...no Seagulls except at GC.

thanks, on that laminate issue

 

[muttley600]

So when I read a spec on a guitar and it says

example
>Solid Spruce top
>Rosewood laminate back and sides

This would imply all "layers" are rosewood?


That seems to be better than what I was thinking, which was like a furniture veneer over particle board type thing.

I saw a Epiphone Texan '64 reissue with solid top and back, $449 in GC add.


Checked out a few Takamines tonight, EG523xc, EG5330sc, Alvarez AJ60sc...no Seagulls except at GC.

thanks, on that laminate issue

No it wouldn't imply that, it may be the case it may not. Ultimately if you have to compromise on a laminate construction limit it to the back and sides. Don't worry about the type of laminate it isn't that important in your price range.

You can get a solid construction easily in your range if thats important to you.. You should do your best to get a solid spruce top at least though. If you can get solid back and sides so much the better but you will notice the benefit far less than a solid top.

I will tell you what I tell everyone who asks for advice on picking out a guitar in the entry to mid level.

Ignore the name on the headstock.
Play as many as you can.
Go back and play them again.
When you are close to the deal take a friend with you.
Have them play the thing so you can hear the guitar out front.
If at any stage you feel pressured by sales staff walk away.
If at any stage you feel hurried by sales staff walk away
If at any stage you feel patronised by sales staff walk away.
Insist on a setup that is right for your choice of strings and style.
Enjoy the process it is supposed to be fun. Its your money.

You get the idea. It's all about you.

 

[CoolCat]

fender cd140sce takamine eg363sc

You can get a solid construction easily in your range if thats important to you.. You should do your best to get a solid spruce top at least though. If you can get solid back and sides so much the better but you will notice the benefit far less than a solid top.

I will tell you what I tell everyone who asks for advice on picking out a guitar in the entry to mid level.

Ignore the name on the headstock.
Play as many as you can.
Go back and play them again.
When you are close to the deal take a friend with you.
Have them play the thing so you can hear the guitar out front.
If at any stage you feel pressured by sales staff walk away.
If at any stage you feel hurried by sales staff walk away
If at any stage you feel patronised by sales staff walk away.
Insist on a setup that is right for your choice of strings and style.
Enjoy the process it is supposed to be fun. Its your money.

You get the idea. It's all about you.

good advice.

trying out is free...so spent a couple hours playing many today.
imo..A real nice Epiphone Masterbuilt- all solid..really enjoyed it..what a nice sound.Fender CD140sce, I liked it even more than I did as I compared. Neck felt similar to the satin finish HPL Martins at $650..the electronics same as a few Martins= Fishman.

Towards the end of the "sampling" guitars, the sales dewd dropped a Takamine G 363sc, in front of me and that was solid top and electronics had a pleasing low profile, my type setup, nice look, and I think 3 piece rosewood back? I didn't see any laminate looking inside the hole? IDK..
but......a few odd knot-patterns were noticed in the top spruce of this Takamine. asked the sales dewd to bring another from the warehouse to compare. so maybe next Tuesday. maybe i'm too picky?
I don't have pictures, but the "wood grade" term was used to explain these 5 or 6 little mini-wood knots that almost looked like defects.. But I wondered? I have heard GC will try to sell "B" guitars as new. or is it nothing?
is this "wood knot" anything to be concerned of?

no Seagulls available in acoustic/electric.
oh well....thanks for the notes and tips!
maybe Tuesday or later I'll post again....

 

[acidrock]

Close your eyes,play and listen.
I think you can buy an electric based mostly on looks and work it into something you like,an acoustic however is "what you hear is what you get".
I bought my Seagull used,it's a beat up plain Jane.When I went to the store they had a dozen other twelve strings that looked much nicer,but when I felt how it played and sounded I knew I had to buy it.

In the lower price range you usually have to compromise,but if you're willing to be patient you can find a guitar that plays above it's pedigree.
Or you can just spend a lot of money.

 

[CoolCat]

Its not hard to get to a final 4 or so, imo.....
but then it can get tricky...

the engineering side of my brain likes all the materials and physics talk too, science and craftsmanship makes shopping hard on $300-$500 or so... all the woods and bracing is interesting reading. picky cosmetics....and bling...

the other side the brain,,,playing and writing, yes, brands and materials don't matter so much...."the vybe". I think of Willie Nelsons guitar with that frkn hole in it!! but thats his thing. The Fender CD140sce was pretty decent really, for what I was looking for too.

Takamine= Tuesday for a test drive at the house. UPS said it shipped...

 

[muttley600]

Most here will tell you I rarely if ever make a comment on brands as guitars are such a personal thing. I make an exception for fender acoustics however. I'll let some one else fill in the balnks.

The knot in the wood thing. Top wood for guitars is graded (loosely) on several criteria not necessarily in any order but some thing being more desirable than others. Quarter cut with no run out, the very best tops are cut with the grain bolt upright and traveling the entire length of the board with no run out. Epect to pay top dollar for that as it's about 5% of what actually makes it to instrument grade timber.

The next criteria is stiffness, you can't see this but you can feel it and you can get an appreciation of it on the finished guitar by lightly tapping the bridge with your finger and giving it a listen. That does include the braces though. I place almost as much importance on the stiffness as I do the straight grain.

The tightness of the grain that you can see will often but not always give a good indication of both the above. The tighter the grain and more even the colour generally the slower grown and consequently stiffer the timber.

Now on the timber you are likely to find on the sort of thing you are looking at.

Some disclouration and occasional visual defects are common they should not effect the sound or stability of the guitar and would be covered by warranty in any case. Ditto with variation in grain regularity an colour.

When you say "knots" I worry. There is no place for "knots" anywhere on the top. Some blemishes can look like knots. If you have any doubts get a really keen price or walk away.

Keep in mind that most of the really good spruce gets snapped up by the big brands for their top of the range stuff and the likes of me before it ever goes on the mid range stuff. Really good timber is getting hard to find.

Ultimately you want to go for a solid top and be guided by what you hear as a player and out front. Hearing it out front and in a few different places in the store if possible is quite important. Especially if you intend to play out with it.

Last bit of advice. Don't be overly seduced by onboard pickups. They are usually the first thing to go wrong and you can nearly always fit a better option down the road and one to suit your budget and needs.

Enjoy..

 

[CoolCat]

interesting post , i'll have to do some of that tapping-test...

Does this look normal for swirls or knots??

The one I mentioned had like 6 of these...hard to describe. One almost looked like a crack in the wood but it wasn't I don't think?
so this 2nd one will show up soon...

 

[muttley600]

interesting post , i'll have to do some of that tapping-test...

Does this look normal for swirls or knots??

The one I mentioned had like 6 of these...hard to describe. One almost looked like a crack in the wood but it wasn't I don't think?
so this 2nd one will show up soon...

Thats more likely plain old discolouration or wavy grain. Knots would typically have a dark to black centre. That may well be where a knot would have been on adjacent boards. I wouldn't worry about those too much if the guitar has everything else you want. Make sure you are covered on the warranty and get a keen price if you are able but that alone wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

I don't have any pictures of timber defects or markings to hand. I'll try and snap a few later and post them.

 

[CoolCat]

thats good news.... because this is in the right price range for me, and liked it good enough to lay the money down on it. looking at a second one cosmetically soon, will tell if its just real common with this line, however looking at several pictures of this model I don't see this pattern.

also just found a coupon online for 10% off anything up to $500...called anonymously and the sales guy said should be no problem. thats like $45 off, which is cool. good until Feb 28...they should credit the purchase.

 

[CoolCat]

you can get an appreciation of it on the finished guitar by lightly tapping the bridge with your finger and giving it a listen. That does include the braces though. I place almost as much importance on the stiffness as I do the straight grain.


Enjoy..

What is it supposed to sound like?
I assume a dampened sound = stiff.....I'll have to do this on some next time.

I remember Jeff Beck said he liked to put his ear on the horn of a unplugged Stratocaster and a friend and me did this and there was a huge difference.

do you muffle the strings when tapping on the bridge or just listen for anything of the hole or put the ear on the wood it self?

 

[CoolCat]

Got the 10% applied per the coupon.

I realized the online sites have no Tax, and most offer free shipping, so I could have saved another $50apprx... ordering online.

So basically $499 with 10% coupon and if had done the no-tax online store (~10% again) it'd cost only $400. hmmm...

they are shipping it from Kansas to Dallas.....wonder why they can't order it as an online item?

plus the stores say they'll match lowest price? does that count for their own online site price?

 

[muttley600]

What is it supposed to sound like?
I assume a dampened sound = stiff.....I'll have to do this on some next time.

I remember Jeff Beck said he liked to put his ear on the horn of a unplugged Stratocaster and a friend and me did this and there was a huge difference.

do you muffle the strings when tapping on the bridge or just listen for anything of the hole or put the ear on the wood it self?

It's a comparative thing. You are really listening for a bell like sustain and even decay. Out at a gig all day will report later..