Long time, no record - production/engineering tips?

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maryslittlesecret

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It's literally been a year or two since I've been out here, but I'm hoping everyone is as knowledgable and helpful as they were back then...

Anyway, I have some sound clips available on our website (http://www.30sos.com/media/media.html) and am looking for some suggestions. I'd suggested any of the first four clips (Creep, Echo, Reason to Hate and Piece by Piece) but suggestions are welcome for any of the tracks...

The main thing I'm after are some production ideas to beef up the arrangement. I currently have just one basic guitar part blasting through the song -- beyond that, the arrangement is kind of hollow. What do you guys do to fill out your mixes and make them sound more professional?

In addition, I'd love some engineering tips on how to get the guitar up front a little more. It sounds a little too 'scooped' to my ears -- blending fairly well with the bass, but not really 'popping' out of the mix.

Anyway, you opinion, suggestions and (constructive) criticisms are welcome and encouraged. Thanks much!

J
 
The guitar needs more mids.

The sound is overall awesome, but the guitar *IS* too scooped! Less low end and more mids.
 
Thanks, Cloneboy. I've been working on trying on the guitar tone recently. Any tips on where I wanna boost/cut for EQ?

Any thoughts on how to fill out the tracks any further? I'm probably a little too close to give an accurate review, but the arrangements still sound kind of hollow to my ears... Thanks!

J
 
I thought it was awesome!!! I would of liked to hear more drums (not the hi hat). I can't ever hear the kick drum well and the snare a bit more (but that's just me since I listen to alot of hip hop). The lack of kick drum would probably be because of the guitars. I think cloneboy's advice would help out big time. Overall I loved the music.
 
Pull up more mids on the amp.

Most of the best guitar sounds come from capturing the source in a larger than life way. Dial the amp up in a good space to sound great, and throw some mics on it.

A lot of guys that record guitar in a similar vein that you do will have as many as 4 mics on an amp. I've seen a SM57, Royer R121, and MD421 lined up about 1" from the center of a speaker literally almost touching each other, with a Neumann U87 about 3-6' back.

But the important thing is to get the sound coming off the amp to sound great.

I usually don't EQ distorted guitars at all, but I might compress them a bit if I'm doing metal sounding stuff.
 
The trick is I'm not recording an amp -- it's a POD 2.0. I've squeezed about as much mid out of that thing as I can (and still maintaining a decent tone) so I was hoping to EQ the tracks in the mix a bit... Any thoughts?

I may move to a different unit for guitar, but I kind of need to stay the DI route due to lack of space, noise limitations, etc...

J
 
i think if you are willing to add another guitar during the chorus you could fill it out much more. What i hear personally is another distorted guitar up a few octaves on the g, b and e strings playing d flat a flat and d flat an octave higher again on the crotchets arpegiatted if ya get me. The vocals are great and its an excellent song. Has a touch of the Chris Cornell's about it i think.
 
God bless ya for the Chris Cornell comment! I'm listening to Soundgarden as we speak. Cornell is untouchable IMO but still very flattering, man...

And I like the idea of a higher string guitar thing in the background. I'll definitely toy with that. You think keep the arp D5 chord the same while the other chords change? What is 'the crotchets', btw?
 
On the POD try running less bass so the mids seem more apparent. I find good guitar tone is in moderation on the settings.

If you need more low end in the mix add it in.

The reason I wouldn't do that for the mids (i.e. eq in more mids) is because that range is very wide and can get harsh sounding. It is easy to add some 100hz on guitar to get it to sound big and tight, but a broad boost on mids to get it to sound good would end up being a bit harsh.
 
elementary, I suppose I should ask which song you're referring to... ;-)

And Cloneboy, that makes sense in terms of not adding mids in the mix. I think I may give the amp emulator in my GT-6 a shot. I'll let you know if I can get that dialed in...

J
 
Hey J...

Long time no see (welcome back from your fellow Cedar Rapidian)...

The mixes sound good... one thing I've always been told is that more guitars with lesser distortion actually sounds bigger than a couple tracks that have too much distortion.

I could imagine hearing some tracks added to yours with some AC-30 type of distortion... something that is more midrange oriented than your typical heavy guitar tracks. The two together would sound nice.

Man... I looked at your calendar and noticed that you played with Ty Tabor and the boys back last year at 3rd Street... I never even heard about that show or I would have been there... RATS!

Velvet Elvis
 
Too much crunch and not enough body. Less distortion or maybe a....hey, the song cut off!

If that's all I get, that's all you get.
 
Hey, VE. Good to hear from you again. Are you accepting clients in your studio yet? ;-) I actually tend to dial down the distortion a little more than a lot of people in this style (believe it or not) and I usually vary the tone a bit between overdub tracks, but I like the AC-30 suggestion. I think I have that type of patch available. And yes, playing with KX was a HUGE honor. I highly suggest catching them live if you haven't seen them. Not only are they incredible musicians, but they're some of the nicest guys you'll meet. Always hang out after a show for 20-30 minutes to chat, sign autographs, take pix, etc. Extremely cool guys.

And sorry about that Jake-owa -- our management didn't want us giving away the store online. Seems like you're on board with the other fellas though -- the gain shal be dialed down.

Another question... what kind of reverb/delay setting do you guys use for rhythm guitars (if any). My tracks are almost completely dry, but I hear more and more stuff on the radio with a very soft, subtle eigth-note delay that seems to fill things out tremendously. Any thoughts/suggestions?

J
 
I used delays on the Just William project... no reverbs at all unless it was a jazz solo type sound I was after.

I usually set the delay fairly quick, but not quick enough to sound like a slap back... I've found that syncopated delay times can be a cool effect and thicken things well.

I usually only go for one repetition... too many and the mix muddies up.

I haven't taken any client yet as I am still building the new studio in my place out in Marion... slow going as I have no $$$ :)

Velvet Elvis
 
I like the whole mix. Especially the bass guitar. How was that tracked. It wasnt a pod was it? How did you mix the guitars, cause they sound better than my guitars that i recorded through a marshal tube amp! Did you layer loads of the same track to thicken up the sound? When i do direct recordings, the distortion jumps out as being fake and too in your face sounding rather than having any air.
Is that real drums? Sounds like it could be samples. Sory if im wrong.
 
Thanks for the delay tip, VE. That's about what I've been hearing. I'll give it a shot next time I plug in...

Thanks, ecktronic. The bass was with the POD as well. In fact, the only live mic is the vocals -- the drums are a drum machine. I'd love to have a more 'live' set-up, but space, noise and money dictate otherwise.

In terms of the guitars, nothing special to the mix. No EQ, very little reverb (from the POD), and no other effects. Just two tracks panned between about 70% and 100% depending on the part of the song.

I've recorded about two CDs worth of material with this set up and I think I'm just getting sick of the sound...
 
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