live sound help

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daled

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Hi Everybody,

I was recently given the opportunity to engineer at a live venue in my city, but unfortunately I had to turn it down because I felt I didn't have enough experience with live audio besides the few volunteer shows ive done and a little bit of home recording with my own band. Can anyone please offer me some advice (or helpful websites) that would help educate a beginner in live sound? Also, does anyone know of any good affordable earplugs, that won't cut frequencies but just reduce the overall soundlevel, that could be used while engineering in a club?

Thank you for your help.
 
There is a good book by Bruce Barlet ( I think that is how you write his name). Just came out.

I dont know about good plugs. I own a pair but find them extremly annoying not to mention painfull.
 
Camn may be able to help a bunch, I'm still green and learnin'. Tonight I'll post what I know here (I work 3rd and goin' to sleep now)...

Meshuggah? S8-N? Bruce?
 
I think the two most important things are to get the PA balanced properly ( ie as close to flat as possible with a little extra low end ) and to get the band to sound as balanced as possible without the PA, try to get the stage to sound good and half your work is done. A lot of it is really troubleshooting, every band has their 'bad habits', the wimpy singer, the deaf guitarist, the drummer with the weak right foot etc, so it changes from gig to gig.

You said you did a couple gigs, were you having problems with anything in particular?

Mixing with plugs might not be feasable since to do a good mix you really need to hear what the audience is hearing. Just keep your SPLs sensible and you should be ok.
 
Vox is absolutely right about SPLs. If it's too loud for you it's too loud for the audience. Someone will always come up to you and ask you to turn it up but then again there's always a few half-deaf headbangers in any crowed. You're mixing for the larger group, not for the hearing impaired (most of whom have fried their eardrums with Walkmans).

Important: position your board (and your ears) in the direct line of fire of one speaker stack so you're getting the full picture. One of the most difficult things is to convince the band to keep their stage volumes to a reasonable level so that you can control the overall mix. You can't mix to a level below whatever works with the loudest thing on the stage. If there's a Marshall full stack turned up to 11, the only way to blend it in with everything else is to turn up the whole mix at your end to paint-peeling levels. This will probably be your most difficult task unless you are dealing with experienced musicians who understand the job of the sound person. At this point it can become a battle of egos...
 
If you're looking for a good book on it, write to Electro-Voice and request a copy of their book, "The PA Bible" ..it only costs 2 bucks, but it is a great book that explains a LOT.

Isaiah
 
Keep everything in mono, or panned no more than 11 or 1 oclock.

A snake will help you out immensely, with a patch bay (maybe 12 or 16 channels). This costs alot, but you can use it for EVERYTHING (i've used 8-channel snakes for guitar cords in a pinch). Then you run it out to your PA/mixer, which should be in front of the speakers, or you'll be running back and forth between your board and the floor.

You know that shitty old mic you've got? Patch it in to your PA and keep it at your board. You'll use it for soundcheck ALOT, and can do backups during the show from the board later on.

Carry Duct Tape EVERYWHERE. Tape down everything on stage after soundcheck (you may need to move mics, etc.)

Get a MiniMaglite (the AA battery ones) and keep it on your belt (it comes with a "holster"). Screwdrivers, needle-nose pliers, and a drumkey are essential too.

Go to Office Depot and get magnetic tape, cut it in 1" squares (maybe a little smaller) and label your tracks/PA.

Bands will NEVER play as loud as they should during soundcheck. NEVER. Always have them top out at, like, -6dB. The singer won't like it. Fuck him.

One overhead for the drums is fine. If you're choosing between snare and overhead, go overhead. You'll still need a kick.

If you bring cords, mics, headphones, stands, etc., LABEL THEM. If you're using a certain color tape or tape pattern, get with the band and let them know beforehand that that's your "signature." You'll lose shit otherwise (not a bad idea, although cumbersome, to list out (or count) the stuff you provide and make sure you've got it at the end of the night). Be there when they tear down.

um...
 
I feel so ashamed, how could I forget to mention Gaffer's tape and a Flashlight :(

Seriously, Kelly is absolutely right, YOU MUST HAVE TAPE AND A FLASHLIGHT!!! I've done gigs where they neglected to mention that when the band is on all the house lights except the stage get killed, I've mixed more than one gig with a Maglite clenched between my teeth as my only light source. Also it aint fun trying to trace and change a bad XLR cable on a dark stage without a flashlight. A talk-back mic at the board can be a life saver too.

Live mixing is a really wierd experience, on the one hand you can litterally control the whole mosh pit with just the movement of one finger, when everything comes together it's a kinda weird puppetry where the whole room responds to every little movement of your hands. On the other hand every tone deaf motherf***er is a critic and thinks he is an expert.

You can only mix for yourself, from the time you try to mix to please someone else and start going against your own instincts and ears it's all over. Someone may come and say something like 'Hey , we cant hear the bass in the back' ,Fine.....listen to them and reassess the mix, recalibrate your ears and add a little bass if you feel you can rely on their information, but dont let anyone dictate to you how to mix the show, if you do the mix will suck because you will always be guessing and second guessing yourself. Just to clarify a bit, I don't mean that when a bandmember tells you 'song 3 is a keyboard dominant song where the bass guitar plays the hook' to ignore them, what I mean is dont let anyone stand next to you and go ' the guitars are too soft, ok now the vocals are too soft, ok why does the snare sound so ringy?...' Be polite and completely ignore them or let them mix.
 
So me and the woman went out last night to a local bar - fairly nice place, generally has live blues on Wednesday. Cool. However, when we got there, we find there is some classic rock yahoo who is going to be "spinning some tunes" and annoying us with fancy DJ patter instead. Fine, we'll play some pool, listen to some 80's stuff and just relax. I can deal with that. So, since we got there before the show, the house music is playing some 80's stuff, not bad, nothing great, but not bad.

However, about 9 the house music goes off and the DJ and the MC get on to start the show. When I say DJ, I don't mean like rap DJ. I mean radio DJ. This guy has TWO (count 'em - TWO) sound sources. He's got a CD player and a mic for the MC. Ok, I concede, he probably has more then one CD player to cue things up and fade in and out, but still.. three sources. In a pretty decent sounding room - not the best, but not bad, the bar owners did pay some attention to sound when they built the place.

So the MC mumbles something about draws and stuff at midnight and says what a wonderful time we're going to have. Then the DJ starts a song playing - and the high freq's are feeding back through the MC's mic. And the bass is pushed up hugely, so far that you can barely tell what song it is.

So we're listening for a bit, trying to finish the pool game (I suck at pool and so does my fiancee), wincing whenever the song goes up high and wondering if I should go wander over and tell the DJ the mix sucks, when he gets out of the booth, wanders around the bar, then goes back into the booth. "Ah," I think, "he'll have noticed the feedback. And the heavy bass. And the fact you can't even tell what frigging song it is"

And he did.. nothing. So we took off (along with half the bar) and found a bar that did have live music - some young guys playing a combo of swing, the Beatles, Floyd and Black Sabath. Well, I at least had to give them credit for interest. Decent players, decent music, but, of course, it was too damn loud. However, that I can deal with - my fiancee and I always carry earplugs.
 
Swing, Beatles, Floyd, and Sabbath...

Holy Moly, I think you've just nailed the interests of the individuals in our band...

:D
 
They were also playing some new stuff - Treble Charger and STP and the like. Pretty good sound - all the people playing could actually play. And play multiple instruments, at that. Sax, trumpet, guitar, bass, drums, piano and three vocals - and there were only 4 members in the band.

I saw 'em setting up and figured it was just going to be another young garage band (more enthusiasm then talent sorta thing) but I was pretty impressed

That DJ on the other hand - him I wasn't impressed with. Takes a pretty crappy sound to cause people to leave their food on the table and walk out
 
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