Live Mixing / PA Setup?

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argle22

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Hey everyone,

I'll be recording and mixing my first live gig next week (Yeah, last minute stuff!), and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on my propsed setup -

Mackie 1604VLZ-Pro
Run the instruments (guitars, bass, keyboard) to the soundboard, and then use the direct outs back to their amps (Pre-Fader). Run the vocals to the board, and then use the aux send to a powered monitor. Then use the main mix for the PA system (two powered 15 inch speakers).

Should I be running a compressor on the vocals, or the main mix to keep the signal managable?

In a smaller room, am I going to have trouble not mic'ing the drum kit for the PA?

I was also considering setting up panning based on mic location. Is this proper, or am I just being foolish?

I'm also just planning on using the 4 sub-outs to a few minidisc decks to get a 4-track recording.

And if there are any helpful hints you could give regarding a first gig, please please please share them! I'm getting quite nervous considering it's my first out-of-studio (and very public) appearance.

Thanks!

-Daniel
 
Wow, I actually understood everything you said!!! (I'm gonna be running sound for my first gig here in a couple weeks, too).

If the stage is even somewhat big, I wouldn't do ANY panning... like, if someone's on the right side of the stage, all their going to be hearing is what's coming out of the main speakers and maybe a LITTLE stage volume, so if you pan vocals, they will seem to be quieter than the others.

Also, I would definitely insert some compression on the vox, and put a limiter on the main mix using the the "main inserts" to keep from blowing speakers.

Looks like you got everything else pretty well figured out. The going into the board first and recording the clean guitar signal is a great idea, because you can go back later and play the clean signal into an amp and record the amp "properly".
 
Run the instruments (guitars, bass, keyboard) to the soundboard, and then use the direct outs back to their amps (Pre-Fader). Run the vocals to the board, and then use the aux send to a powered monitor. Then use the main mix for the PA system (two powered 15 inch speakers).
Click to expand...
I wouldn't do this at all. For guitars, I'd put a mic in front of the amp. Bass, I'd try to get a line output from the bass amp or use a direct box. Same with keyboards. You have enough aux sends on that board to make a variety of monitor mixes and/or recording mixes. You could also get creative with the sub groups as well. Your compressor/limiter ideas are OK.
Also I wouldn't pan the instruments. Just my opinion. YMMV.
 
Am I going to be running into trouble by mic'ing the amps as far as levels are concerned? This is a Battle of the Bands type show, and each band is bringing their own amps and equipment. I just figured I'd give them an easier way to plug in. (However, thanks for the slap in the head regarding the bass recording, I forgot that you ALWAYS need to mic a bass amp.)

-Daniel
 
Umm, you dont have to mic the bass amp. In fact bass amps are rarely miced for live shows. They usually use a DI box to split the signal and use the stage amp just for monitoring.

Mic the guitar amps or use their line outs, mics are better.

Compression on vocals or main mix is fine. On the main mix use the compressor more for limiting so you dont blow your amp or speakers.

If the gig is really small dont mic the instruments at all. Use the PA for vocals only. If you have a small PA it is better to save it's power for a good clean vocal sound than a lot of underpowered mush.

Dont mix in stereo because very few people will be in the right place to enjoy the difference. Most will just be wondering why they can't hear the guitar very well.
 
Track Rat said:
Bass, I'd try to get a line output from the bass amp or use a direct box. Same with keyboards. You have enough aux sends on that board to make a variety of monitor mixes and/or recording mixes. You could also get creative with the sub groups as well. Your compressor/limiter ideas are OK.
Click to expand...
 
argle22 said:
(However, thanks for the slap in the head regarding the bass recording, I forgot that you ALWAYS need to mic a bass amp.)

Originally posted by Track Rat
Bass, I'd try to get a line output from the bass amp or use a direct box. Same with keyboards.

-Daniel
Click to expand...

Just to clarify a misunderstanding, I believe Track Rat is trying to make a point here. Don't mic the bass amp.
 
argle22 said:
Hey everyone,

I'll be recording and mixing my first live gig next week (Yeah, last minute stuff!), and I was wondering if I could get some feedback on my propsed setup -

Mackie 1604VLZ-Pro

Nice board for the job

Run the instruments (guitars, bass, keyboard) to the soundboard,

Problem #1, plugging a non active bass or guitar directly into a board line input without using a direct box will adversely affect your tone, keys no problem though

and then use the direct outs back to their amps (Pre-Fader).

Problem #2, you will then be sending line level signals into
instrument amps designed for a lower signal level

Run the vocals to the board, and then use the aux send to a powered monitor. Then use the main mix for the PA system (two powered 15 inch speakers).

Exactly Right

Should I be running a compressor on the vocals, or the main mix to keep the signal managable?

I would use the compressor on the Vocals

In a smaller room, am I going to have trouble not mic'ing the drum kit for the PA?

That should be fine, the kick drum might seem a little weak though, but if you dont mic the drums you will get very little on your recording

I was also considering setting up panning based on mic location. Is this proper, or am I just being foolish?

Probably better to stick to mono unless you are sure that the crowd will always be able to hear both speakers more or less equally

I'm also just planning on using the 4 sub-outs to a few minidisc decks to get a 4-track recording.

You will probably have trouble getting the different decks to play back in sync with each other

And if there are any helpful hints you could give regarding a first gig, please please please share them! I'm getting quite nervous considering it's my first out-of-studio (and very public) appearance.

Thanks!

-Daniel
Click to expand...


This is the way I'd approach it

Mic Kick drum

Mic snare drum

One or two overhead mics for the rest of the drums

Bass plugs into a Direct box which splits the signal, parallel out goes to bass amp, XLR out goes to mixer

Keys can plug into a line in on the board once the cable run isn't too long, If it's more than 20' use another Direct box and go into the Mic input just like the bass

Mic the guitar amps, you can just hang the mics in front of the amp's speaker if you don't have space or stands

Mics for vocalists with compressor used as an insert on lead vocals


Once you have that all rigged pull down the master fader and just listen to the band from the mix position, NOT through the PA, the idea is to get the sound straight from the stage to sound as mixed as possible by adjusting the guitar/bass amp volumes to match the acoustic volume of the drums, if anyone is too loud but still can't hear themselves adjust the position/angle/height of their amp. Bring up the vocals in the stage monitors until the sound onstage is nicely balanced and the vocalist is comfortable ( vocals a little loud is ok).

Once this is done you can bring up the main mix. Your best bet is to just record live straight from one of the Subgroups, if you want to go stereo don't pan too widely.

Good Luck.
 
Thanks to everyone for the info. I guess it just means this week's paycheck is going to another compressor and some mics. :-) (Gotta love that Alesis 3630!)

-Daniel
 
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