Lexicon 224xl or PCM91

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eggwheat

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Hi, I'm about to buy my first quality reverb. The guys in my local recording shop recommend the Lexicon PCM91 but I'm also being offered an old Lexicon 224xl with the LARC controller. I do like the sound of 80's reverbs that I hear on records so I am drawn to the 224xl but it is old and I don't know how reliable they are or how practical it is for a small studio. On the other hand the PCM91 would be brand new and is a lot more compact. This will be my only reverb apart from the reverb on the cards in my VS2480.

Any experience with these units? Which one do you think I should buy?

Thanks, Phil.
 
FWIW... I have no idea what the price of a PCM-91 or used 224XL is so this suggestion may be way overbudget... I've been exceptionally happy with the Kurzweil KSP-8 w/ the RSP-8 remote [goes for $3,250]... mine is set up so I have 4 mono inputs with 4 stereo outputs. I generally set up some kind of "hall" like reverb on engine 1, a "plate" like reverb on engine 2, a kinda "leslie"ish effect on engine 3, and whatever else the song might need on engine 4.

The 224XL IMNTLBFHO was the beginning of the end of Lexicon reverbs. They got the constant density plate really good in the 224X, but it got very whimpy and thin with the 224XL... from there it seemed to me that the overall quality of their reverbs suffered as each new model was released.

I have not used the PCM-91 so I can't actually speak from experience with the unit, but if it's anything close to the algorithms used in the 960L, it gets a great big "not worth the bother" from this user.

Realize that the only reason our shop pimps the Kurzweil unit is because I'm a hardcore user of the thing... it's the only "multi-effects" unit in our studio. We have a bunch of other dedicated delay lines, MXR phasers, MXR flangers, Lofts, etc... but the KSP-8 is the only modern multi-effects box I've used where I thought the reverb sounds were good enough for use on my projects.

I've tried the 960L, I've tried the "Orville", and I grew up around the other Lexicon stuff [the first digital reverb I ever used was an original 224 in like 1979!!]... for my money, the KSP-8 does "plate" reverbs better than just about anything... with the possible exception of the old EMT-250 which has a tone to it that is just out of this world.

Best of luck with your search.
 
I have not used the PCM-91, but I own a PCM -90 and I am very happy with it. I am also a fan of the Lexicon 480L but even today those things will cost 4 grand or more.

Keep an eye our for a used PCM-90. I think I bought mine new for under 1300 when the released the PCM-91

I would shy away from picking up the 224 XL. I have never really been a big fan of them and there is a big risk of things going wrong with a box that old, it could be really difficult or maybe even impossible to repair.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. I found out since it is a 224x not an xl....well it says 224x on the front yet when you turn it on it displays on the larc something like 224x v1.0 then says 224xl v8.2 whatever that means! Also they are both up for around the same money $2000 a piece... I wish i could get to try this stuff for a week before deciding. I opened up the 224...jeez its certainly packed with electronics! scary..

Phil.
 
I have used 224's, and I have used the PCM 90, and of the two I would go with the 224. They are more versatile, and I like the sound more.

That being said; I have not heard the Kurzweil Fletcher is talking about, but I do trust his judgment, based on having heard some of his albums. And I do trust Kurzweil's ability to design good stuff. The KSP-8 is the one I want to try right now. I would try getting a Kurzweil, and see how I like it.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
If you like 80's reverb, then that is all 224/224X/224XL, or the smaller version PCM-70. Todays direct successor to the PCM-70 is the PCM-81. It is manufactured and sold today and costs the same as a PCM-91, which is based on the 480L.

Lexicon no longer supports the 224 series, so that should be a big drawback.

(Btw, the XL differs from the X by having a different controller. You need to remember that Fletcher has golden ears and can hear differences mortals can't.)
 
Ok thanks, just to throw something else into the mix, the guy also has an AMS RMX16 for the same money ($2k), how do you rate them against the 224x?

Phil.
 
Bro, if it's a 224X with the blue metal controler... it's worth the $2k and you will probably be pysched out of your mind with it... but realize that for slightly more than 50% more money you can score a machine with 4 times the capablilty [in terms of I/O... in terms of function, you could score a unit with 1000+ times the capabilities].

Best of luck with the search.
 
First of all, $2,000 is overpriced for the PCM-91, you can find dealers selling them for less. Second, I have a PCM-91 and a KSP8, and I would say that if you are in that price range you should seriously consider the KSP8. It sounds great, and you get a lot more for your money. The KSP8 is one of the most useful fx units I've ever owned, and I've owned a lot over the years.

That said, I do like the PCM-91 very much, and it gets a lot of use around here too. It's just that between it and the KSP8, the Kurzweil does so much more for not that much more money. And the KSP8 sounds great, no compromise there.

My only worry about the 224 would be in the area of repairs, maintainence, and longevity. I'd be a little scared about that.

Older vintage type reverbs are great if you already are well stocked in bread and butter fx units and want some specialized tones. But if you are looking for your first quality reverb, then I think it is worth your while to get a modern unit with the features, digital I/O, etc. Then later on add the specialty stuff.
 
Thanks guys, most helpful, I will go check out the KSP8 asap. Hey Fletcher this 224X has the white plastic LARC not the blue metal one..Is that a bad thing? This machine definately says 224X on the front. When you switch it on it say on the display something like 224x v1.0 then says 224xl v8.2...
 
According to Lexicon:

White metal controller: 224.
Blue metal controller: 224X. More memory, longer dalys, another sync unit, slightly different algorithms.
White plastic controller: 224XL. Exactly the same as an 224X except for the controller, which is the same as the used for the 300L and 480L. (Hence the L).

How trustworthy this is I don't know. Lexicon is very hush-hush on their internals.
 
The 8.2 software was indeed the 224XL software... and while the white plastic "LARC" controller could be done as an upgrade to an existing 224X... for some reason, they never sounded the same once the upgrade was performed. I worked at a bunch of joints in the mic 80's that did the upgrade... and I think the 'halls' got a bit better... but the 'plate' programs suffered greatly. They said it was exactly the same... but I'll be damned if it was.
 
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