Les Paul Saddle Height

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pchorman

pchorman

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Les Paul owners,

Can you please tell me how high you set the saddle above the guitar body? Two screws hold this in place on my LP Studio, and nothing stops me from screwing these all the way down to the point where the screw's lip contacts the body finish (which would scratch it up underneath). I do not recall its original setting but I know that if it's too high it results in a non-fret-induced string buzz (of the form which others have complained about on this forum).

Other than avoiding the buzz if too high/loose, and some slight body damage if too low/tight, does it even matter?

thanks
 
You may want to have the neck on you guitar checked out. There is an adjustable truss rod that controls the bow of the neck (makes the finger board bow up or down). If you have fret buzz, the neck has too much bow "up". If the string height from the finger board is too high even when adjusting the bridge all the way down or the tension on the strings seem loose, the neck has too much bow "down". You local music repair shop should be able to make the adjustment for less than $40. This can be a do-it-yourself project, but not if you haven't watch some one do it before. Also if your guitar has a bolt on neck, some adjustment can be made to the string tension at the joint. However it is always best to adjust the truss rod.
 
Daddy-O, no prob with the LP's glued-on neck or with its action - no fret buzz at all. I was referring to a different buzz phenomenon when the saddle isn't secured well.

I could really use someone's comment on how tightly they keep the saddle screwed down. This is something usually not messed with, but in the process of cleaning or tinkering I must have "screwed" things up. Now it's about half-way between completely loose and finger-tight.

[This message has been edited by pchorman (edited 07-10-2000).]
 
I was just looking at Badass II bridges for bass and they also have those for guitars. Has anybody modded their Les Paul bridges? Any recommendations? I'm sure Epi's bridge is not as good as Gibson, so Epi LP players could share their experiences :)
 
Hi. I have an Epi Les Paul Custom. I had the same question when I got it, I even screwed them all the way in on the first set of strings. I contacted Gibson about this and they told me that how tight the screws are determines how "stiff" the strings will feel to the fingers, so after that I keep those bolts about halfway in. I also have a 1973 Gibson Ripper fretless bass with the similar bridge design and I did the same thing. I think you should be able to adjust for "feel" with your strings on, but I would check the intonation after that. As far as I understand there should be no buzz unless you loosen them so much as there's almost no contact. Half-way in or more, depending on "feel" seems to be the place to start :)

BTW, does everybody like thinner strings on their Pauls then on strat-type guitars? I use .09-s on my yamaha strat, but I just installed .08-s on the Paul and I love it!
 
Thanks much Gear_Junky. That's about where I keep it, half-way. I use Super Bullet 0.009's on the LP Studio. BTW, you're lauching a whole new discussion now with the relationship between string gauge and tension. I've always wondered how the same dia. strings tuned to the same notes on different guitars have a different feel when it comes to bending them. Some guitars feel much easier to bend notes than my LP, all other things constant (?)

Physically, this doesn't make sense, since achieving the same tone with the same gauge on different instruments should imply the same tension. Perhaps the overall string lengths are slightly different, warranting tighter/looser tension. Is that so?
 
This IS an interesting question. I'm gonna make some assumptions here: depending on the way you adjust those 2 screws you have to correct the intonation a bit, right? So that changes the "scale" of the string slightly, which suggests changing tension (or stiffness) to tune to the same concert pitch. This is just an educated guess, I don't know for sure that it's the right answer. And different guitars probably have different scale to begin with.

Another factor could be the shape of the neck and frets - that really affects the "feel" of the strings. I know that I feel better on rosewood fretboards than maple. I tried playin a Rickenbacker guitar with their highly finished fretboards and I can't play as fast on it.
 
Fender guitars are a longer scale neck than Gibsons. Les Pauls have a 24 & 3/4 inch neck from bridge to nut. Fenders are about a quarter inch longer. Thus, to achieve the same pitch using the same gauge strings, the trings have to be pulled tighter. I use .009's on my Paul's and .010's on my Strat.
Then I tune the Strat down a half step. This makes it feel (to me ayway) comparable to the feel of the Paul's. I believe that this is the way SRV tuned his guitar.
 
And what do you mean by "saddle?" The saddle is the plastic piece around the pickup
where the height adjustment screws for the pickup are located. Are you talking about the stopbar or the bridge? Doesn't the Studio have a combination stopbar/bridge?
 
I refer to the "saddle" as the piece acting as a tie-down for the strings. The "bridge" would be the piece which "suspends" (cute) the strings above the guitar body and pickups.

Looks like I got the answer originally sought with saddle height when I heard "half-way".
 
The stopbar height shouldn't affect the stiffness of the strings at all. After all, you're not really changing the string length, and you're certainly not changing the height.

I always set the stopbar on my custom such that the strings don't bend too sharply over the bridge...thereby causing less breakage...I guess :)

Slackmaster 2000
 
I hear that, and have wondered about that sharp bend myself. Not sure if I ever broke a string at that precise point or where the strings bend over the V-wedge in the bridge.

This reminds me that when I detune for certain songs and then retune to standard orchestra pitch, which I do almost nightly, it probably puts a lot of stress on the unwound strings at these points. The sliding of the strings back and forth at these bends under such pressure must be a primary reason they weaken and pop when they do.
 
Mine has between 1/16 and 1/8 inch of space between the bolt stop and the finish. Been that way for 18 years . . . never even thought about it.

Regards,
PAPicker
 
Gibson claims on the new DC Les Pauls that the angle from the bridge to the stopbar does make a difference. That a greater angle helps in bending strings. My DC does feel different from my other 2 Pauls but I'm not sure if the angle from bridge to stopbar makes a big difference.
 
This angle also matters at the headstock - the headstock on good guitars is usually bent back. They also install string "trees" for that reason - to create an angle. I don't quite understand "how", but I just heard so many times about it.
 
Ummm...I don't get it.

The angle of the headstock ensures that the force of the strings is drivin inward through the neck to the body...compensating for the "upward" force the strings will inflict upon the neck. This reduces twists and bows.

The angle of the strings over the bridge can only effect the amount downward pressure on the bridge. This ensures that the string doesn't stretch or slip on the bridge probably reducing breakage, tuning, and intonation problems...though too much downward pressure would probably not be good on the strings either.

The ONLY things that determine the difficulty in moving a string are its size and tension. Forgetting about size, tension is determined by string length (to achieve pitch) and string length alone. Therefore, adjusting string length WILL change tension, and therefore make it easier or harder to bend the strings. Adjusting the string length will also change the leverage you have over the strings at various points up the neck. But string length is measured from the nut to the bridge, not the machine to the stopbar.

If adjusting the stopbar height does change the string bending properties of the guitar, then it can only be that the string is able to stretch or slip over the bridge because the angle is not sharp enough...which I doubt is a good thing.

If you imagine the strings being fixed at the nut and the bridge, as with a locking trem system, it shouldn't matter what the hell you do to it after the nut and before the bridge. The number of winds you take on the machine posts doesn't have anything to do with the playability of the guitar! And neither does the stopbar height. That's my argument anyway :)

My guess is that there is a miscommunication here somewhere. Terms are being confused perhaps. Maybe we need to determine what Gibson means by "helps in bending strings" ... do they mean strings can be bent more easily... or that strings can be bent more reliably in terms of breakage and tuning.

Or there's something obvious that I'm missing. Anyone want to clue me in?

Slackmaster 2000
 
When I got my DC Standard I remeber reading about the angle of the strings from the bridge. I'll see if I can find the literature and let you know exactly what it says.
 
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