legal questions

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cantthinkofname

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hi, occasionally i like to dink around with songs that aren't mine for the fun of it. I was wondering if i were to actually finish one and share it without wanting any money, just for the fun of doing it and sharing it, would this be illegal? Say one was a song from the 1800's and one was a song from the 80's. Does that make a difference also?

3rd question (sorry for so many questions), but i was wondering if i incorporated part of someone elses 'hit' yet slightly changed into my own song then what are the legal implications?

Thank you
 
In the real world nothing will happen to you.

If you stole someone's idea and ended up making millions they'd contact you and you'd have to give them a cut.

But what you're asking is so common place it would be like if the cops arrested everybody for speeding or having a joint.

It can be a great learning experience to do what you're talking about but to me it's more fun to make up stuff completely and then you don't have to worry about anything.
 
thanks, that's what i normally do and totally understand what your saying but just on a few occasions i've started playing something that is allready wellknown and got creative with it and was kinda fun.

There are only 2 that i've liked to do this with really so far, i was 'dinking' around with Fur Elise on the guitar and liked what happened with it, and also just today actually by accident Stings 'Little Black Spot on the Sun Today' & really liked that too

There is only one other so far i thought i might like to experiment with on the guitar and that was Rachmaninoff G minor prelude op 23, no. 5
(here is somone playing it on piano https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXMpXj6qfOc) i really thought i'd love to do this on guitar, before i knew this song existed i had made something up that was similar, so thought maybe to combine the 2, anyway i liked it, but was wondering if its something i should or shouldn't do outside of my own self

thanks again
 
Also note that what you're talking about was very prevalent in Bebop.

Charlie Parker took "Back Home in Indiana" and sliced, diced and julienne'd it into something that was unrecognizable, and it ended up being called "Donna Lee".

So what you're talking about isn't a new thing and don't think that it can't lead to legitimate stuff... after all, most songs have roots in other songs.
 
I think it depends on who's material your playing. I know under-the-radar artist are receptive of people covering there material and may even post it on there web site. The ones you would have to worry about are the mainstream gimps.

As far as age I think it is 50 years and the artist is no longer living? I don't know to be honest. Maybe someone else could clear that up.
 
I was in a movie about Charlie Parker...its showing on IFC called "Kansas City".

Most of the time if you have to question the legality of something...it probubly is illegal...I have copied riffs backwards and created new melodies...nothing illegal there...but forewards...or sampling phrases you have to have permission...no monitary gain stuff should be OK until you are told to stop using it.
 
that song that sting sings... you know ... little black spot on the sun???






well that song is called king of pain :p:D
 
Thanks, I understand it isn't anything new, and there really is a fine line. As i said this is something i don't do on purpose, and the few times its happened it just happens. This experience actually, to me anyways, has been worth more than the music itself.

As many here have experienced i'm sure hearing something on the radio or even somewhere else that they thought 'they created' has made them wonder or wander into this phenomenon. In my experience it has been 'Cold Play' Home i think it is that i thought i was the original creator of when i was around 8 or 9, and a song i had to listen over and over through the thin walls of a duplex that someone else was playing after i had sold all my musical means, basically given up music and had nothing else (that was truly enlightening), the list goes on.

its interesting tho, there are some songs that are even 'workable' and some to me seem untouchable, such as imo Am Fenster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMsQ1KgUqU....

I also think there are songs that shouldn't or couldn't even be messed with, i often hear covers of other popular songs, and don't think much of them, and a few actually do stand out to me and appreciate them. One of the few and only covers i like is one by a band i can't remember that covered 'Dream' by Stevie Nicks.

However today driving in my car i heard a song remnicent of another famous musician that was not too bad at all but just wasn't authentic. this blew it for me.

My favorite band is Midnight Oil, but even they are not entirely original.

As for the comment about a certain age limit or life limit of the origninal creator, i have heard that too somewhere but wasn't sure. I was thinking it would be less a problem with Beethoven but possibly more with Sting.
 
darinn quote 'Most of the time if you have to question the legality of something...it probubly is illegal...I have copied riffs backwards and created new melodies...nothing illegal there...but forewards...or sampling phrases you have to have permission...no monitary gain stuff should be OK until you are told to stop using it.'

but what if its not intentional? there is another song i didn't mention in the last post that led into something that went just a tad beyond riff and more into phrase, and not on purpose! it bugged me that i'd have to just throw this away because someone else has already commercialized and profited from it



kingofpain, 'that song that sting sings... you know ... little black spot on the sun???






well that song is called king of pain'

:) lol looking for laughing icon, can't find it,

newbie
 
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Legally, you would need permission to use other people's material, whether it's a whole song or just parts of it. Most of the time, you can get a license through the Harry Fox agency. They offer means to license a song fairly cheap if distribution is less than 2500 copies. Don't quote me and research a little by going to their site.

Fur Elise and other classicals are probably in the public domain and you should be able to use them freely. Again, research it.
 
cantthinkofname said:
darinn quote 'Most of the time if you have to question the legality of something...it probubly is illegal...I have copied riffs backwards and created new melodies...nothing illegal there...but forewards...or sampling phrases you have to have permission...no monitary gain stuff should be OK until you are told to stop using it.'

but what if its not intentional? there is another song i didn't mention in the last post that led into something that went just a tad beyond riff and more into phrase, and not on purpose! it bugged me that i'd have to just throw this away because someone else has already commercialized and profited from it



kingofpain, 'that song that sting sings... you know ... little black spot on the sun???






well that song is called king of pain'

:) lol looking for laughing icon, can't find it,

newbie
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Oh...the Police tune...so you strung a few notes together and it matches what they were playing...or did you sample it?
 
i have stood here before inside the pouring rain with the world turning circles runnin' 'round my brain, i always hoped that you would end this reign but its my destiny to be the king of pain.

greatest song ever IMHO :D:P

check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eXBwZGnI4Q

i like that version much more.... but then again im also a rabid mudvayne fan.



(btw i know none of this is helping and im sorry :()
 
darinn "Oh...the Police tune...so you strung a few notes together and it matches what they were playing...or did you sample it?"

to tell you the truth, i don't even know what sampling is yet, it was just another day, and in the midst of everything going on i sat down and grabbed my guitar and started playing, 'my stuff' etc., and then all of a sudden 2 chords i was playing flashed 'little black spot on the sun today' into my head and just kept going with it and started singing too and it was a cool thing
 
chili "Fur Elise and other classicals are probably in the public domain and you should be able to use them freely. Again, research it."

i think i remember hearing something about that, what was interesting about the fur elise thing is that when i started expanding upon it, thinking it was myself it started partially turning into pink floyd, then i thought to myself the intracasies of this situation

understanding the history and essense of beethoven and pink floyd, this incidental nonpurposeful melding was truly extraordinarily interesting beautiful

however, i thought, what if i shared this, in the world that we now live in at least, would people be coming after me?
 
Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale" sure sounds like Bach's "Air for the G String", and there's several Beatles tunes that have been traced to other old tunes.

There is a point though, where you know that a tune is a real tune of it's own.
 
Chili said:
Legally, you would need permission to use other people's material, whether it's a whole song or just parts of it. Most of the time, you can get a license through the Harry Fox agency. They offer means to license a song fairly cheap if distribution is less than 2500 copies. Don't quote me and research a little by going to their site.

Fur Elise and other classicals are probably in the public domain and you should be able to use them freely. Again, research it.
Click to expand...

Thank you, i have a book about copyright that i've been reading through but it didn't quite answer all of my questions. I was wondering also how to get a license if needed so thank you for mentioning the Harry Fox agency, i'll check it out.

There is a point though, where you know that a tune is a real tune of it's own.
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Thanks i agree

Kingofpain, i posted that Kingofpain vid for you lol, but forgot to tell you that i liked the Mudvayne cover too, so telling you now, like the cover thanks for posting it :D
 
yup i love both versions, but i like mudvaynes a bit better cause i like heavy music and i really like what they did with the feel of the song.

good luck to ya man.
 
Kingofpain678 said:
yup i love both versions, but i like mudvaynes a bit better cause i like heavy music and i really like what they did with the feel of the song.

good luck to ya man.
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i like stings version better, but i love heavy music too. I just spent about an hour on the phone trying to win tickets to metallica lol, and lost again like usual. (and no offense to the ones who posted the 'who killed metal thread', i do realize metallica branched off from i think iron maiden) (but i still love metallica).

thanks for the luck, i don't know where its going or if its going anywhere, i just got high from it when it happened and still get high from it when i play it, its not even like its me playing when it happens, thats been my general non-approach to music

it happened to me again last night, i sat down and started playing and it turned into Bob Seger's 'Shame on the Moon' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpB7GWwY6FY too cool because i love that song :)

sorry for yamming, anyway thanks, and if i find out anymore info will try to post for any others wondering
 
Bob Dylan has stolen melodies, chord structures, lyrics, and sometimes even entire songs. His entire career is based on these little thieveries. Apparently, it is called the 'folk' process.
You can do it too. You just have to have better lawyers than they do.
 
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