Korg D1600 Digital Multitrack Recorder

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Jitter!?We don't need no stinking jitter!

Vegas is new and ambitious, and rumored to be a bit buggy. As a computer vet of 27yrs your statements sound like they make sense, but, no, they are not a real representations of what happens inside a computer.

You driven over a bridge built in the last 20 years? You think it was designed on a jittery computer? On a 1mghz computer, Everything goes in lockstep at 1mghz or divisions thereof, period. Or computer not worky!
 
Timing IS a problem in a PC based system.

People are correct in the hardware aspects - the hardware is potentially capable of
extremely rigid timing. The biggest problem is the operating system.
Don't take this as an OS bashfest, because its a problem with most PC Os's today:
They're not what is known as a "Real Time" OS. (RTOS).

This wouldn't normally show up as jitter except in the most poorly written
software, but you sure can't avoid drop outs.
The basic problem is that say you're recording a track, the A to D converter is
continuously ringing the doorbell on the processor (interrupting) to come and
get the next audio sample. But, hey, you installed a network card and the processor
is off reading in a big fat ethernet packet, and doesn't respond in time, dropping the audio
sample.
Even an RTOS has to be used carefully, but the main difference is the RTOS can be tuned
to guarantee a response time (as long as the programmer doesn't load up too much work).

In a dedicated machine, you can bet they are using an RTOS under the hood, and that
it's load balanced to garantee audio performance.

Yes, with windows, you can reduce the chance for error by:
- faster processor,
- more ram
- less stuff on the task bar
but you can't guarantee it for certain!

All windows variants are not an RTOS, neither are most linuxen.
Apparently BeOS is , no idea about macs..
Cheers,
Gord Wait
 
PC or not PC

Hi all

I took a vacation and currently I'm at Ayia-Napa, Cyprus:) but couldn resist finding an I-net cafe and logging here.

As for timing: maybe I'm missing a point but I'm pretty sure that when you render a stereo audiofile (say, in vegas) from multitrack the whole process has nothing to do with sound card output. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Adding numbers is a fairly simple task but could anyone explain what is going on during that process (the audio doesnt leave a computer) that when you mixdown and burn it to CD it all sounds shit?
 
Originally, I meant simply to prevent people from being scared away from PC recording due to a non-existent timing problem. Portable multitrackers are also just computers with software running on them so there's nothing fundamentally inferior about PCs in general. As Gord pointed out, it's possible that a PC will have dropouts if the computer cannot keep the driver's buffer full. But this isn't the same as the problem that Batat was talking about, which is the subtle loss of clarity, etc. Dropout problems can be avoided simply by disabling background programs, increasing the buffer size, or changing interrupt numbers. Multitrackers don't have this problem because they've already been permanently "tuned" to avoid it.

I've read a little about some controversy in Cubase forums regarding the sound quality of a Cubase mix. Some people are claiming that a mix on Cubase does not sound as good as a mix on Logic. I haven't been following this controversially closely so I don't know the details. In my last post when I implied that adding numbers together is easy, I meant in terms of timing. But adding numbers in terms of audio levels may be another story. Perhaps mixing digital audio is not as simple as adding floating-point numbers together. This may be what you are hearing, Batat. As you say, you would hear this type of problem when you mix down to a file as opposed to playing it through the sound card. I guess I just wanted to point out that it is not a fundamental problem with PC-based recording but just a (possible) problem with particular application programs. (Many people currently get great results with Cubase.)

Note that these sound quality claims are subjective. I've read where some golden-eared people claimed that there was a sound quality improvement from one Cubase update to a following one. But Steinberg then said that they made no changes to the audio engine between these updates. I'm not saying that listeners are always crazy, just that occasionally they are :).
 
D1600 ???

I'm a long time believer of "If something works...don't fix it!!". :rolleyes:
My first digital unit, was the VS880. After trying to get through the "War & Peace" manual, to no avail, and no on-line help I might add, I returned it, bought the Korg D8, liked it so much, I bought another. Both are sync'd as part of my set-up. I've seen the D16, thought about it, if it's anywhere near as friendly as the D8, go for it. Korg makes a good product, and they stand behind them too. Unless you absolutely need 16 tracks, (if this is a writing/composing tool, I don't see why you would), then think about going 8 track digital. I find that currently, I use my "B" unit, (second D8) for voiceovers, as I've set the internal effects parameters for the required effects, and they're locked on board that unit. If I need something else in the way of effects, these are just the user effects, I can still revert back to the presets, which are easily adjustable.
Whatever you decide to get, buy it because you find it suitable to your needs, not what someone may say is the best, after all, you're the one using it, not them.. Good Luck in your choice..no matter what make you go with.
http://sh-boom.freehomepage.com/index.html
 
Re: D1600 ???

old guy said:

Korg makes a good product, and they stand behind them too. Unless you absolutely need 16 tracks, (if this is a writing/composing tool, I don't see why you would), then think about going 8 track digital.
Click to expand...

For about the price of a D-8, you could get Digi-001. 24tracks/24bits and 8 at a time going in.;)
 
Re: Re: D1600 ???

For about the price of a D-8, you could get Digi-001. 24tracks/24bits and 8 at a time going in.;)
Click to expand...
I'm always open to new info. I've been checking the web for information on this Digi-001, couldn't find anything. :rolleyes: Do you know of a link, so I can at least have a look see?? Are you referring to Digitech? If so, I couldn't find any reference to anything called a "Digi-001". Is this a stand alone unit, a computer based software????
 
Re: Re: Re: D1600 ???

old guy said:

I'm always open to new info. I've been checking the web for information on this Digi-001, couldn't find anything. :rolleyes: Do you know of a link, so I can at least have a look see?? Are you referring to Digitech? If so, I couldn't find any reference to anything called a "Digi-001". Is this a stand alone unit, a computer based software????
Click to expand...

There are a lot of reviews to be found if you search for Digi-001 on Lycos. You can go to the Digidesign website as well...www.digidesign.com . Digi-001 is not a digitech product. It is a version of Protools and a hardware package for Mac or PC for recording. It offers 24 tracks at 24 bits and you can record 8 tracks at a time at 24 bits.

I have been using it for a month on PC and am head over heels with it.
 
Enough!

I thought this was a thread for the D1600, not
computer recording! Enough already. Go to the digital
BBS if you want to talk computers. Some people don't cream
over the thought of computers and are looking for
other options.

As to the D1600 itself, I am setting up my own home
studio and have done extensive research as to what
recording platform will work best for me. My research
indicates that the D1600 is the best product at the
best price for what I'm looking to do. ADAT? No. I don't
want all the outboard gear; EQ's, Verbs, Comps, Preamps and
everything else. I also need 16 tracks, and two ADATs are
two grand by themselves. Computer? Too many problems during the
setup, no physical fader control during mixdown without
outboard gear. Portable unit? Yes. D1600, DPS16 or one of the
Roland units. Testing all units showed the D1600 to be
superior in sound and capabilities for the price. Great sound.
Extra large hard drive, lots of effects, normalizing and tons
of other features including internal burning. The D1600 will
work for me, but you have to judge what's best for you.
 
KORG D1600

Airbox,

Thanks for your post. I, too, have heavily researched the lit & reviews on various recording approahes. Have you actually heard the D1600 or D-12, and how does it compare to say, the Akai or Roland VS series?

Just FYI for others, I have an original ADAT, good preamp/mics, great sounding source instruments, and find my simple home recordings in 16-bit digital sound better than many people's fancy 24-bit setups. So there are those elements to consider, too.

I'd like to hear from anyone who's actually USED the Korg products, and knows what they are like in practice.

Thanks much.
-Curtis
 
D1600 sound

Yes, I have used the D1600. A salesman at Mars sat with me for two hours while we experimented with it. I recorded acoustic guitar, vocals, SR16 drum machine and a strat through a Johnson J Station. The sound is pristine, even at 16 bit. I didn't really notice a significant difference between 16 and 24 bit, and neither will the average music consumer. The touch screen interface is a very nice touch, and once you know where you're going it makes getting from screen to screen very nice. I will say that it takes a while to learn, but that's to be expected with an all-in-one box of any make. The effects are nice and very useful. Nice touch with having different eq's for recording and mixdown. Only thing I didn't try was burning a CD. Like I said in my previous post, I will be purchasing a D1600 as soon as it arrives at my local MARS, and will be using it to submit original music to the industry. I truly believe this box is more than good enough for many at-home studio musicians. Good luck.
 
CD-R or CD-RW for D1600?

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking about this purchase myself. One thing that's gnawing at me right is that the catalog literature I have for the D1600 indicates that an optional CDRW is available from Korg. This bothers me because I've been told on this site that CDRW is not playable on all CD players, but CD-R is.

Is this correct? If so, doesn't that seriously hobble the D1600's versatililty? Is it possible to hook up a CD-R unit from some other manufacturer (Philips, TASCAM, Sony, etc) to the Korg D1600?

My goal is to record my own original work and get it out there, so I need something that will be as universal as possible.

Thanks!
 
one other question...

...is there a D1600 website out there anywhere?
 
D1600 web site

Yes, there is a discussion board for the D1600 located at Korgboards.com. It covers most of Korg's digital recorders, including the D1600. However, since the D1600 is so new, there isn't much help there yet. Mostly just "hey, did you get your D1600 yet?" and things like that. But that will change as Korg makes more D1600's available. As to the CD-R and CD-RW issue, don't worry about it. Go to Korg.com and search for the D1600. At the end of the description is a list of compatable CD-R's and W's for the D1600. Just spend the money and get one of them. I would also recommend that you get an e-subscription to Sound on Sound magazine located in the UK. They do great reviews and have excellent recording advice. The site is sospubs.co.uk. They did a very good review of the D1600 (very positive too) and the author describes his experiments with CD-RW on the D1600, which he said went flawlessly. Email me at Foreman77@aol.com if you have any specific questions about the D1600.
 
I Bought It! (D1600)

Hey everyone:

I finally bought the KorgD1600 and it sounds awesome!!! Well, Ive only recorded some vocals since im just learning how to use it. It has so many features its going to take some time to make full use of it. It has incredibe effects. Im new to all this digital recording business, but if you judge by ear, I think you all will agree that the sound is excellent!

Iry
 
congratulations!

Iry-





Since no one bothered to say it I figured I would.





I myself keep going back and forth with all this stuff. I first got the Korg, as I said, and used it for 2 weeks. I recorded a concert with it of a vocal group and burned a CD. It sounded great. I just used one mic-- a tlm103. The rest was just the Korg unit. Beautiful. Then I returned it, as I planned I would, and thought about it some more. Then I started BS'ing on this BBS and began swaying back to the computer idea. I am a programmer by trade and I must admit it is tempting. Frankly, I DID get a wealth of good ideas and excellent information here. But now I think I am going to get the Korg. I realize that the editing will not be as powerful--but all the essential editing you can do-- cut/copy/paste and a host of other stuff. And being able to easily move the thing, even if it is just into my living room, is nice! A computer solution means (if you are trying to keep cost down) building one yourself -- you have to decide on parts-- ram, motherboards, soundcards, video cards, drivers etc. and then put it all together. I am a veteran programmer by trade, and although I am not afraid of doing this, I can tell you that it isn't a trivial task. And I can also pretty much guarantee that if you do go that route, you will end up spending more-- or at least I would.





Eventually, I will get a computer based workstation.. later. First, I have given myself the assignment of making a bunch of music with the Korg and seeing how that goes. I think the unit will hold its value well, so I can sell if I want at any time on Ebay.





You know you can have the best equipment, but you still need to have some kind of music going into it in any case, and the equipment won't supply that part! Good luck!





xxoo


jk
 
Let me tell you something. I have a D16 and I love what it can do. I have the version 2.01 so I think that's the same as the D1600. These units are excellent............until they fuck up.

Let me tell you something else.......Korg customer support is so shit it unbelieavable. They are quite happy to take your money but once there's a problem; sorry we can't help you (that's when you can finally get through on the phone/via e-mail/bang on their door.........).

Bare this in mind when buying.........it's down to personal experience.
 
Whoa!

Krystof01, how often does this happen to you? Is this what I've read about some digital recorders that crash? How fatal is it to the project?

Man, you've got me scared and I was just thinking the D1600 was in the bag!
 
Well by all means buy one; like I said they are good products but.......if they brake.

I found them to be wholly unreasonable, very inpractical and for the size of this company very unproffessional. It came to a point where even after I had gone to great expense (and many many wasted hours) they were even trying to prevent me from picling it up because they didn't want to do the internal paper-work. I was going so far out of my way to be told that my now fixed unit was on their premises and therefore they didn't have to release it until they wished to (ie, when it suited them).

I'm not unreasonable, but they just didn't want to help in the slightest. The D16 was at their warehouse for around 2 weeks (had been registered in) but no one knew anything about it, "oh, I didn't realise we had that in". When it came to fixing it they inserted a whole new board in the unit because they were short staffed and it would save time. The problem being, not only do I have to pay for the new board (instead of say one component part (logically this would be the case since it was fine one day, then none operating the next)) I also can't find out what was wrong with it in the first place so it may well happen again.

The D16 broke under warranty but I did not report it until a few weeks after the warranty had ended (oh yeah; they convieniantly don't offer extended warranties). I was required to spend my time elsewhere so I hadn't needed to use it. I got my dates mixed up by a month thinking It was still under guarantee for another month (see, with most companies you send in your warranty form and in return you get some notification of the details and when it ends (needless to say I am still waiting for my KORG one).

I feel I should state that it was far more the principal of the matter as opposed to the money issue; though that's an issue also.

This is a representation of my experience, who knows; yours might be fine and never brake and the customer support maybe brilliant (incidentally I was on the Korg D16 user group forum and I was speeking to someone else with almost identical problems with the D16 and the customer support).

This is by no means a comparison with other companies (seems the bigger they are, the less they care once they have your money (that is until you hand more over of course)). All I'm saying is think before you buy (there is very little that seperates products these days). Sure, I'm a little bitter at the moment and I am just one customer. I'm not saying that I'd never buy KORG again, but I would certainly try and find out about the after sale service (and the extended warranty issue) and consider similar products.

Sorry about going on...I wasn't going to into it and that's why it's in no logical order but im pissed off with KORG at the moment.
 
I have used a D16 for almost two years and have been very happy with it. I upgraded the harddrive myself (korg said it couldn't be done) and have recorded many projects with it. I mainly use a mac g4 with protools LE now, but the Korg still comes in handy for recording tracks remotely and taking them back to my studio. I use the MTC sync to dump the tracks into protools. Not perfect sync ( a few miliseconds off), but close enough unless it is an entire drumset. Because all of the mics, transfering a drum kit two tracks at a time can cause phasing problems, so I usually submix the drums to stereo and then dump to protools.

My biggest two gripes with Korg d16 is: 1) digital out is only two track optical instead of ADAT lightpipe. If the d1600 had adat lightpipe, I could dump eight tracks of drums at once into protools and not worry about phasing. 2) It would be nice if the d1600 would support wordclock. That would allow one to lock up to other software and not encounter "drift" that you get when just transferring via MTC trigger.

But, if you aren't worried about tranferring tracks to other machines or software, then the D1600 has great sound and decent effects.
 
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