kick/vocal condenser

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letsgoduke

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i'm trying to find a mic i can use for multiple purposes (like everyone else, i'm on a budget). i have an sm57 i'm going to use for guitar/bass and snare. im debating what else to get however. i need overheads for the drums, kick, and vocals. i have $300-400 to spend on these mics.

i was thinking a studio projects B1 for vocal/kick (SPL of 137 dB, so i think i'm good on that front, even if that is an unconventional approach). the more i look at overheads though, the more i can't decide. i was thinking maybe mxl 993s, still not sure.

any thoughts? i know this isn't the greatest stuff in the world, but i'm doing the best i can. mainly, i want to know if the B1 is even remotely usable for kick, or if i need another solution for this. my other thought was to just get another sm57 for kick, and use that or one of the overheads for vocals. thanks guys!
 
in my opinion i'd stay clear of trying to use a vocal condenser for a kick... one will be lacking pretty severely...

if you get a mic that makes the kick sound great, i'd say the vocals would probably not be satisfactory and the other way around.

instead of making your vocal mic a hybrid, i'd try using the the sm57 on the kick... i think it would be better and safer.

kick drums i believe give off a good amount of pressure, perhaps more than a condenser would handle which would leave you mic-less in the end.

however you could double off a vocal mic as an overhead... thats a whole lot better of a scenario.

so this is what im guessing your looking for with a $400 limit.

-vocal mic/overhead
-overhead
-kick mic

im assuming you'd have 4 mics on the kit? kick/snare/2 over heads?

if so...

snare = sm57... good
kick = Shure beta 52a ... good ($190)
overhead/vocal = B-1 ... never tried it but at this price range i dont know how much of a difference it would make from brand to brand.. (im not a behringer fan) .. but i'd check out the Audio-Technica AT2020 ($99)
2nd overhead = im really not sure.. another sm57? haha (awesome mic) ($99)

To me that seems pretty good for that budget and you will get some good quality recordings.. if oyu know how to place em ;)
 
great response, thats the info i needed. i feel bad spending so much on a kick mic, especially since i'm the drummer and my brother is the vocalist and the one with the real talent! while i've seen some people having luck with behringer, it seems like they are few and far between, so i'm staying away from that. probably going with the B1; i was thinking about a sm58 for vocals, but at that point i don't really see the point if i already have a 57 (even if the frequency response is slightly different). i'll definitely check out the audio-technica too.

is it general practice to use paired overheads for drums, or just to use the best of what you have, placed well? i'm definitely not opposed to getting another 57 haha.
 
letsgoduke said:
great response, thats the info i needed. i feel bad spending so much on a kick mic, especially since i'm the drummer and my brother is the vocalist and the one with the real talent! while i've seen some people having luck with behringer, it seems like they are few and far between, so i'm staying away from that. probably going with the B1; i was thinking about a sm58 for vocals, but at that point i don't really see the point if i already have a 57 (even if the frequency response is slightly different). i'll definitely check out the audio-technica too.

is it general practice to use paired overheads for drums, or just to use the best of what you have, placed well? i'm definitely not opposed to getting another 57 haha.
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Id replace the Beta52 with an SM7b or MD421...you can get those used for about the same amount...they make better bass drum mics and they are also geared for vocals...two birds killed with only one mic.
 
Get a Shure SM7. Great for vocals. Great for Bass drum micing. $350 new, around $250 used. As for overheads there are plenty of decent overhead paired condensors available from $100-200. Think CAD, Nady, maybe even AT. Try to get used stuff.
 
My favorite overhead, bar none, is the Oktava MK-012. It's the only mic I've used that produces enough stereo separation on the toms when doing X/Y stereo in the near field. It was night and day compared with the Chinese condensers I used before.
 
based on another full day of reading, i'm thinking about going with a pair of AT2020s and a SM7 for kick/vocals. or maybe a pair of b1s for overheads. i can't decide!! i really want the oktavas, they seem like everyones best value pick. bit out of my price range though.

this is a completely separate question (hijacking my own thread), but are the prices of used mics on ebay justified? some of them are around half price... it doesn't seem like the wear and tear on them would result in prices that low. the businessman in me sees an arbitrage opportunity, but i may be very wrong in that haha.
 
letsgoduke said:
based on another full day of reading, i'm thinking about going with a pair of AT2020s and a SM7 for kick/vocals. or maybe a pair of b1s for overheads. i can't decide!! i really want the oktavas, they seem like everyones best value pick. bit out of my price range though.

this is a completely separate question (hijacking my own thread), but are the prices of used mics on ebay justified? some of them are around half price... it doesn't seem like the wear and tear on them would result in prices that low. the businessman in me sees an arbitrage opportunity, but i may be very wrong in that haha.
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at this point if your getting 2 condenser mics that are perfectly capable for vocals aswell as your overheads i'd really focus on getting a mic designed to capture a good kick sound.

the SM7b is a dynamic mic, yes... but its not designed as a kick mic. you should look at the frequency responses and transient response on a lot of kick mics and then look at that of the sm7b and see if matches up.

CAN it work? yes... is it your best option? well lets see.

the sm7b, im a great fan of for vocals. the AT's ? havent tried them personally but i've heard some pretty good reviews, so im a little blind but educated.

something to think about (gear can be a bitch and nerve-racking)

there's a lot of things that can go either way, but in the end a lot of what quality you get iwll be placement and tricks of the trade.

getting 2 AT's can be good... but mixing it up and getting a b-1 and an AT could be better too (not saying do it, just consider this)..

lets say one gives great presense and handles higher end better and the other one captures lower tones better... well depending on your brothers voice one might sound better than the other, but you still wil lhave 2 condensers for your kit... so the one that handles lower tones better favor towards your ride and deeper symbols and for the one that handles higher better, focus towards your crash and high hat... this is just a scenario, im not saying it will work this way.. im just showing how having a variety could help... it could also hurt if you find that one of them is a piece of crap :P..

fact is... with the sm7b you will get great vocals but im not sure about the kick, i've never tried it and im not sure if i would replace a beta 52a with an sm7... but if we all did the same thing then that would be boring and there'd be no one better than the other... :)

so with those condensers.. you're getting 2 vocal mics anyways, i dont know if it would benefit the kick if you got the sm7b over the beta 52a.

however, im positive that the sm7b will give you better vocal sound than those cheap condensers...

so the argument is a possible kick deprivatioin for a vocal boost or a possible voice deprivation for a solid kick sound.

and this also just may be me.... but im skeptic of buying used mics unless ive tried them... ESPECIALLY condensers. they are fragile.
 
Bisson820 said:
fact is... with the sm7b you will get great vocals but im not sure about the kick, i've never tried it and im not sure if i would replace a beta 52a with an sm7... but if we all did the same thing then that would be boring and there'd be no one better than the other... :)

so with those condensers.. you're getting 2 vocal mics anyways, i dont know if it would benefit the kick if you got the sm7b over the beta 52a.

however, im positive that the sm7b will give you better vocal sound than those cheap condensers...

so the argument is a possible kick deprivatioin for a vocal boost or a possible voice deprivation for a solid kick sound.

and this also just may be me.... but im skeptic of buying used mics unless ive tried them... ESPECIALLY condensers. they are fragile.
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You should do a bit of research and find some of the recordings using it on bass drum...there are many.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
You should do a bit of research and find some of the recordings using it on bass drum...there are many.
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definately intending to. like i said, im not ruling it out. im just relying on the specs of the microphone and to me it doesnt indicate the best kick sound.

no doubt the ultimate decider is what sounds good but to me it would be hard for me to be convinced that a mic that isnt designed for it would be better than one that is.

im also skeptic of the recordings i find on the internet as the actual mic that was used.... i've seen and heard a few advertising scams.

i dont like to make too many judgement calls on stupid people on the internet (which i guess thats all i am :) )

dont get me wrong advice on these forums is great fromt he right members, but forums can be dangerous.
 
Bisson820 said:
fact is... with the sm7b you will get great vocals but im not sure about the kick, i've never tried it and im not sure if i would replace a beta 52a with an sm7...
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I'm pretty sure the sm7 sounds better than the 52a on kick.
 
Bisson820 said:
definately intending to. like i said, im not ruling it out. im just relying on the specs of the microphone and to me it doesnt indicate the best kick sound.

no doubt the ultimate decider is what sounds good but to me it would be hard for me to be convinced that a mic that isnt designed for it would be better than one that is.

im also skeptic of the recordings i find on the internet as the actual mic that was used.... i've seen and heard a few advertising scams.

i dont like to make too many judgement calls on stupid people on the internet (which i guess thats all i am :) )

dont get me wrong advice on these forums is great fromt he right members, but forums can be dangerous.
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Shure.com is the place to look...most of the artists have full lists of what mics are used for what.
I have a Beyer M88 and that has been widely used for kick since the 1970s...but it costs $500
 
darrin_h2000 said:
Shure.com is the place to look...most of the artists have full lists of what mics are used for what.
I have a Beyer M88 and that has been widely used for kick since the 1970s...but it costs $500
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That's a good mic. How does the M88 sound compared to kick-specific mics? ( D6, 52a, D112 ) ?
 
I found a used Earthworks kick pad for 35.00 (new 99.00) and put that in line with a SM57(used 40.00) - not to bad of a kick.

Then with a insert (or if no insert is available a couple of adapters to just run through ) of a sonic maxamier BBE (used 30.00) working the high but more so the low processing to taste and you get a pretty good kick.

Most of the BBEs are a stereo rack mount unit so you can use the other side to insert on the snares' SM57 working the low but more so the high processing to taste to get a nice sounding snare.

As for over heads on a budget samson C1 stereo pair maybe 50.00 to a 100.00 range new - I've always liked there reproduction of the drum kit.

Then if you don't want to use your 57s on vocal and again on a budget try an AKG perception 200 a very nice vocal mic for the money you can find them used everywhere you can still find them new for under 150.00

So there you have 4 mics, a kick pad, and a BBB for under 300.00 to get the job done with good results.
 
saads said:
That's a good mic. How does the M88 sound compared to kick-specific mics? ( D6, 52a, D112 ) ?
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Its got faster response time and seems to capture the higher stuff too...a good song to listen to is "Another one bites the dust" by Queen.
 
with a $400 budget, id consider an RE20 used, which does both vocals and kick well...provided you have the dBs on your pre...

overheads are different, and in my experience, you cant skimp too much...at times, with good results,
i have used a pair of AKG c5900s which are condensers designed for vocals...a pair would run you around $200
 
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