kick vibrating toms

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thebigcheese

thebigcheese

"Hi, I'm in Delaware."
I've noticed that (especially when I'm recording my drums), whenever I hit the kick, the toms also reverberate, which I am attributing to the fact that they are attached to the kick, but I suppose it could also be that they are all tuned to some sort of harmonizing frequency. Do I just need to retune all the toms, or do I need some sort of dampener? It's a Gretsch Renown Maple kit, by the way, so the toms both come out of a center pole. All hardware is as included (except the boom stand for the floor tom and ride). If it would help, I can also upload a sample recording that illustrates my point. Thanks.
 
thebigcheese said:
I've noticed that (especially when I'm recording my drums), whenever I hit the kick, the toms also reverberate, which I am attributing to the fact that they are attached to the kick, but I suppose it could also be that they are all tuned to some sort of harmonizing frequency. Do I just need to retune all the toms, or do I need some sort of dampener? It's a Gretsch Renown Maple kit, by the way, so the toms both come out of a center pole. All hardware is as included (except the boom stand for the floor tom and ride). If it would help, I can also upload a sample recording that illustrates my point. Thanks.
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I would mount the toms on a seperate stand (or cymbal stand.) RIMS suspension mounts are another route.
 
as a side note, I meant ring, not reverb... I think it makes more sense that way. I have suspension mounts, as far as I can tell. You mean it attaches via the lugs rather than straight into the side of the tom, right? It's got those, but I still get ringing. The drums are up in a corner (I've nowhere else to put them), but I can't imagine that has anything to do with it. I've also noticed that those dampener rings tend to vibrate against the head and give an icky noise, at least with my floor tom, but as far as I can tell, my heads are tight enough that that shouldn't happen. The drums are close miked, but the toms ring anyway, so I'd rather just fix it. If the dampeners are the only way to go, is there anyway to get rid of that nasty vibrating noise? Thanks.
 
thebigcheese said:
as a side note, I meant ring, not reverb... I think it makes more sense that way. I have suspension mounts, as far as I can tell. You mean it attaches via the lugs rather than straight into the side of the tom, right? It's got those, but I still get ringing. The drums are up in a corner (I've nowhere else to put them), but I can't imagine that has anything to do with it. I've also noticed that those dampener rings tend to vibrate against the head and give an icky noise, at least with my floor tom, but as far as I can tell, my heads are tight enough that that shouldn't happen. The drums are close miked, but the toms ring anyway, so I'd rather just fix it. If the dampeners are the only way to go, is there anyway to get rid of that nasty vibrating noise? Thanks.
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I have never had that problem as long as there are no kinks in them. Here is something I have been doing though. I make my own rings out of old heads. They are a little heavier so they cut out a little more sustain for that nice dry thump. And they are heavy enough that you should not have any buzz.
 
So basically then, I need to get rings because my suspension mounts aren't doing their job properly? That's a pretty rotten deal, this wasn't exactly a cheap set... Do I just not have them set up right or something?
 
thebigcheese said:
So basically then, I need to get rings because my suspension mounts aren't doing their job properly? That's a pretty rotten deal, this wasn't exactly a cheap set... Do I just not have them set up right or something?
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my drums are middle of the road and I don't have suspension mounts. I have no problems at all with the toms ringing. So I don't know. They are $10 so it is worth a shot.
 
Do you have heads on the top and bottom? Are they in tune with each other? I prefer to keep the bottom head a little lower than the top. What type of heads are you using? I use fiberskin heads, very thick sound, very little ring.

You said the drums are in a corner, are they facing the wall? If they are, that bounce back will effect the kit.

Have you tried putting a thick blanket over the top of the kick drum (also helps bleed into the kick mic)?
 
This is a common problem - thing is, not everyone picks up on it.

Reason 1
You toms are connected to your kick drum. It's that simple. If you hit the kick drum it will vibrate down the tom arms to the drum. With your mounting system you shouldnt really notice this. But you're recording, so you do. To fix this area of the problem - use seperate stands. :)

Reason 2
Your toms aren't tuned properlly. If you've ever used an out of tune snare you'll notice it sizzles whenever anything is hit. This is because its tuned at the same frequency as the rest of the kit.
Same rule applies to your toms. Make sure they have an indvidual tone and are in tune with each other. Usually toms are tunes roughly in 4ths.

You dont need to dampen them with rings or moongel. This wont have any effect.
 
Don't get all upset about resonance. Most kits will resonate like that. It doesn't matter if they are good or bad. Some kits will do it more than others because the shells are more resonant. Try playing a song with some bass in it and go feel the drums. They absorb sound like a little bass trap. You have a good drumset. Don't dampen the heads with chopped up heads or anything else. You payed for that resonance. My toms are all mounted with "suspension mounts" and seperate of the bass drum and they resonate like crazy. I tune my top and bottom heads a third apart to get them to resonate more.
Start with the fundemental of the shell.Take the drum off the mount and lay it on the floor. Take the heads off and tap the shell with a stick. Then play that note on a keyboard. Tune the top head to that note. Then go up a third and tune the botom head. Try it and see if it works. While you are at it check all the interior lug screws and hardware screws to make sure they are tight. they sometimes come loose from the factory. Don't be surprised if you spend several hours getting them all tuned.

If you play with it a while you will get it where you like them.
 
If it is really a problem, the drums aren't tuned well or you aren't hitting the drums hard enough. (or both)

If you don't hit the drums hard enough, you have to turn the gain on the mics way up to compensate. This leads to you noticing the drums ringing (and cymbal bleed problems) All drums ring sympathetically with all the other things going on in the room, your problem is tuning and/or technique.

P.S. Your heads may be dented and worn out to the point where you can't tune the drum anymore.
 
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They're not worn out, I just got the set a couple months ago and I don't hit it THAT hard. I do play hard enough that the mics are turned very low. I guess I should've figured it was the tuning issue, I was just kinda hoping the store tuned them properly for me so I didn't have to bother. I might've gotten separate stands but... ah money, I'm in college... not compatible. I've got that drum tuning guide thing, so I guess I'll just stick to that. Thanks all.
 
Another Thought

What mics are picking up the tom rings?

If tom rings are primarily coming in through the tom mics, then you can use a gate to allow only tom hits to go through the gates, keeping the unwated rings out.

(This suggestion is not to override proper tuning.)
 
thebigcheese said:
I was just kinda hoping the store tuned them properly for me so I didn't have to bother. .
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?????!!!!!?????
Drums come with the cheapest crapiest heads. You will want to replace them. (just the top ones)
Drums need to be tuned every time you record. Humidity, temperature and just hitting the heads with a stick will pull the drums out of tune. It is not a 'set it and forget it' situation.
 
There's nothing wrong with the drums. They are doing what they're supposed to do.

Use a gate and don't worry too much about controlling the resonance.
 
Are your mics clip-ons or on separate stands? Clip on mics will pick up a lot more vibration.
 
Farview said:
?????!!!!!?????
Drums come with the cheapest crapiest heads. You will want to replace them. (just the top ones)
Drums need to be tuned every time you record. Humidity, temperature and just hitting the heads with a stick will pull the drums out of tune. It is not a 'set it and forget it' situation.
Click to expand...

It came with very nice Evans heads, actually. Top-o-the-line. The mics are on separate stands because it ended up being cheaper, and I figured more effective. Miking from the top. Drums are facing the wall, which I know is bad, but I can't really do much else in the room. I don't have treatment yet, I'm working on it (it's my Mom's house, I can't do too much while I live in a dorm). I can't gate the mics because I'm just running into a mixer that runs into the line in on my sound card. I haven't been able to afford much more than that, although I was thinking of getting one of those Creative cards just so I can have an effects processor that can work on individual inputs, unless anyone has suggestions for a cheaper-than-$100 alternative that'll work better and give more inputs.
 
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