C
Chibi Nappa
New member
Tunnel building is great fun. I did that on my last project and I loved the results. We made it "fort" style out of sofa cussions and blankets.foreverain4 said:
heylow
New member
Fear not!
And as long as I live, I may never understand the concept of holes in kick drums.....must be some repressed childhood sexual thing.
We should cut holes in our toms as well then, with this logic....why wouldnt we?
There is no reason one cannot get a great sound with no hole, no silly tunnels, and no crazy micing schemes. Learn to tune drums and put a mic a mic someplace in font of the kick drum. If the kick sounds good in the room, you cant lose.
It will really depend on tuning and heads used though. I tune my resonant to an E or an F(depending on sound desired) and my beater (Force 1) to an F as well. Minimal padding.....just enough to keep the resonant from misbehaving....none on the beater as the Force 1 kinda takes care of itself. (this tuning may not work for your drum...you have to experiment.)
Visualize 3 equal circles on the front of the kick and stick a mic in the center of one of them for a starter. Experiment.....forward, backward, a bit left, etc. You will find lots of useable tones.
If serious attack is desired, mic the beater side. I dont like too much attack, personally, but have done this with success.
Try this one out as well.........gotten in part from TapeOp...........take one of those ECM8000's (we all got em, right?) and put it on the kick (res side), capsule facing "sideways" so as to not blow air (it's an omni) into it. Sounds fucking huge. Unbelievable.
Speaking of which....check it out:
http://kimcheerecords.com/articles/drums/
And a final 3 words to the nonbelievers:
John Fucking Bonham
heylow
And as long as I live, I may never understand the concept of holes in kick drums.....must be some repressed childhood sexual thing.
We should cut holes in our toms as well then, with this logic....why wouldnt we?
There is no reason one cannot get a great sound with no hole, no silly tunnels, and no crazy micing schemes. Learn to tune drums and put a mic a mic someplace in font of the kick drum. If the kick sounds good in the room, you cant lose.
It will really depend on tuning and heads used though. I tune my resonant to an E or an F(depending on sound desired) and my beater (Force 1) to an F as well. Minimal padding.....just enough to keep the resonant from misbehaving....none on the beater as the Force 1 kinda takes care of itself. (this tuning may not work for your drum...you have to experiment.)
Visualize 3 equal circles on the front of the kick and stick a mic in the center of one of them for a starter. Experiment.....forward, backward, a bit left, etc. You will find lots of useable tones.
If serious attack is desired, mic the beater side. I dont like too much attack, personally, but have done this with success.
Try this one out as well.........gotten in part from TapeOp...........take one of those ECM8000's (we all got em, right?) and put it on the kick (res side), capsule facing "sideways" so as to not blow air (it's an omni) into it. Sounds fucking huge. Unbelievable.
Speaking of which....check it out:
http://kimcheerecords.com/articles/drums/
And a final 3 words to the nonbelievers:
John Fucking Bonham
heylow
D
donkeystyle
New member
you can use an at 3035 on bass drum..............i just used it on a bass drum recently.........it sounded pretty awesome, but i combined it with an atm25 that was right up about 3" from the beater and a speaker that was a couple feet from the drum with a floor tom in front of it.
the 3035 sounded fine by itself though, i was just going for a certain sound, so i used a few mics.
my friend used a 3035 on his bass drum once......he was going for a really "dead" sound like on John lennons "plastic ono band" album.........he stuffed the bassdrum with foam or something.....i'm not sure how much foam, but i think his results were really AWESOME.
he also put a sweater over the snare drum.(the beatles used this method im told) ......it's one of the best snare sounds i have ever heard..........
to make a long story short.......use the 3035......and just experiment.....
oh, also.....you can cut a hole in the bass drum by tapeing a c.d. to the drum and cutting around it.
the 3035 sounded fine by itself though, i was just going for a certain sound, so i used a few mics.
my friend used a 3035 on his bass drum once......he was going for a really "dead" sound like on John lennons "plastic ono band" album.........he stuffed the bassdrum with foam or something.....i'm not sure how much foam, but i think his results were really AWESOME.
he also put a sweater over the snare drum.(the beatles used this method im told) ......it's one of the best snare sounds i have ever heard..........
to make a long story short.......use the 3035......and just experiment.....
oh, also.....you can cut a hole in the bass drum by tapeing a c.d. to the drum and cutting around it.
A
amala
New member
thank you so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
L
littledog
New member
Re: Fear not!
Heyyyyyyyylow!
I can't disagree with anything in this post, assuming that John F. Bonham is the sound you are going for. However, in popular music, there is a tremendous spectrum of desired kick drum archetypes, depending on the style.
While your "hole in the tom" analogy is interesting, i think we can admit that the kick plays a different function in most tunes than the toms - pulse vs. fills kind of thing. If you carried the tom/kick analogy further, you could also ask: "Why ever muffle the kick drum, are you going to stuff towels or pillows inside your toms?" or "Since you play toms with sticks, why not just tape a drumstick to your kick pedal and use that on your kick instead of that weird beater?"
Now, I'm betting you aren't a big fan of muffling either, judging by your taste in kick sounds, which is fine. But for recording certain kinds of music (like hip-hop) a John F. Bonham sound would be about as inappropriate as a Phil Collins gated snare. Regardless of one's personal taste in music styles/drum sounds, if we're gonna be pros, we have to remain stylistically flexible.
I mic plenty of double headed non-holed kicks as well as pillow-stuffed carved up ones. Each has it's role, and neither is better or worse. Each drummer will have their own sound and conception, be it in choosing particular cymbals, a piccolo snare, a double kick pedal, etc. It's not up to us as engineers to impose our personal conception on the drummer.
On the other hand, if you're the PRODUCER, well, that's a different story...
heylow said:And as long as I live, I may never understand the concept of holes in kick drums.....must be some repressed childhood sexual thing.
We should cut holes in our toms as well then, with this logic....why wouldnt we?
There is no reason one cannot get a great sound with no hole, no silly tunnels, and no crazy micing schemes. Learn to tune drums and put a mic a mic someplace in font of the kick drum. If the kick sounds good in the room, you cant lose.
And a final 3 words to the nonbelievers:
John Fucking Bonham
Heyyyyyyyylow!
I can't disagree with anything in this post, assuming that John F. Bonham is the sound you are going for. However, in popular music, there is a tremendous spectrum of desired kick drum archetypes, depending on the style.
While your "hole in the tom" analogy is interesting, i think we can admit that the kick plays a different function in most tunes than the toms - pulse vs. fills kind of thing. If you carried the tom/kick analogy further, you could also ask: "Why ever muffle the kick drum, are you going to stuff towels or pillows inside your toms?" or "Since you play toms with sticks, why not just tape a drumstick to your kick pedal and use that on your kick instead of that weird beater?"
Now, I'm betting you aren't a big fan of muffling either, judging by your taste in kick sounds, which is fine. But for recording certain kinds of music (like hip-hop) a John F. Bonham sound would be about as inappropriate as a Phil Collins gated snare. Regardless of one's personal taste in music styles/drum sounds, if we're gonna be pros, we have to remain stylistically flexible.
I mic plenty of double headed non-holed kicks as well as pillow-stuffed carved up ones. Each has it's role, and neither is better or worse. Each drummer will have their own sound and conception, be it in choosing particular cymbals, a piccolo snare, a double kick pedal, etc. It's not up to us as engineers to impose our personal conception on the drummer.
On the other hand, if you're the PRODUCER, well, that's a different story...
sjoko2
New member
difficult choices.........
Holy or Unholy
Holy or Unholy
S
SBax
New member
Yes but didn't Bonham use huge Ludwig kicks? And, didn't he do things like record his set in stairway wells? No one plays those giant kicks now and most didn't back then. The hole is a short cut, that's all. I've gotten good kick sounds with no hole but it took a lot more work with the tunings, beaters, mike placement etc.
heylow
New member
I was wondering when someone was going to.....
SBax has a great point about the shortcut thing. I know a lot of guys with kick drums that don't even bother tuning them....they just stick a bunch of muffling in there and turn the lugs JUST so the friggin heads arent falling off the shell.
These guys get kick sounds that I wholeheartedly believe i could duplicate with a nice thick couch cushion, a kick pedal, a compressor and an EQ. Why bother going throught the hassle of using a musical instrument?
Littledog, my man!
All points well taken except maybe the one about taping sticks to the beater or whatever...I think I just squinted a bit on that one!
Seriously....no, I dont like a buch of muffling....myself, I like just enough on the res side to dampen between beats so the kick isnt a bass line!
While I think you are absolutely right about us a professionals and working with what a drummer uses, my intention was to inform or educate the original poster. See....he's on the opposite end....he has apparently heard too many times that one has to have a hole in their head to get a decent kick sound and when something else appeared, he was kinda lost.
Of course I mean no disrespect to the original poster. I only wish to be one of the few who stand up and say "damn what's usual, mic that sum-bitch up".
I hope this makes sense....geez...I'm appalled sometimes at pics of guys who do all kinds of nutty things. One of my all time unfavorites being, taking the entire res head off. Thats scary and if you dont have an afro or funky bellbottoms on and the year is not 1970.....dont do it, please.
Sorry to be so opinionated.....I am, really. I have just read too many "absolute how to" posts and feel sorry for newbies trying to do something they can maybe, stylisticly, call their own. I was afraid for a long time to just do certain things so i did everything by the "book" and wondered why everything i did was so bland compared to stuff I liked when, really, there are no rules.
OK, I'm a bit off topic I suppose but seriously.....just record stuff....take the time to learn the "whys" and "hows" like drum tuning and save yourself the hassle. God knows most drummers (I've known) seem to be shooting in the dark at best, when it comes to tuning. I am amazed at how much you DONT have to use a ton of muffling when you create a sound with HEADS and TUNING.
Again, I realize sometimes dudes come in with their own stuff and we cannot dictate but we can at least understand that there are more ways than one to screw your sister....I mean ummmmm....skin a cat or something.
I hope this makes sense....at least a little.....I rambled a bit .
John F. Bonham......nice!
heylow
SBax has a great point about the shortcut thing. I know a lot of guys with kick drums that don't even bother tuning them....they just stick a bunch of muffling in there and turn the lugs JUST so the friggin heads arent falling off the shell.
These guys get kick sounds that I wholeheartedly believe i could duplicate with a nice thick couch cushion, a kick pedal, a compressor and an EQ. Why bother going throught the hassle of using a musical instrument?
Littledog, my man!
All points well taken except maybe the one about taping sticks to the beater or whatever...I think I just squinted a bit on that one!
Seriously....no, I dont like a buch of muffling....myself, I like just enough on the res side to dampen between beats so the kick isnt a bass line!
While I think you are absolutely right about us a professionals and working with what a drummer uses, my intention was to inform or educate the original poster. See....he's on the opposite end....he has apparently heard too many times that one has to have a hole in their head to get a decent kick sound and when something else appeared, he was kinda lost.
Of course I mean no disrespect to the original poster. I only wish to be one of the few who stand up and say "damn what's usual, mic that sum-bitch up".
I hope this makes sense....geez...I'm appalled sometimes at pics of guys who do all kinds of nutty things. One of my all time unfavorites being, taking the entire res head off. Thats scary and if you dont have an afro or funky bellbottoms on and the year is not 1970.....dont do it, please.
Sorry to be so opinionated.....I am, really. I have just read too many "absolute how to" posts and feel sorry for newbies trying to do something they can maybe, stylisticly, call their own. I was afraid for a long time to just do certain things so i did everything by the "book" and wondered why everything i did was so bland compared to stuff I liked when, really, there are no rules.
OK, I'm a bit off topic I suppose but seriously.....just record stuff....take the time to learn the "whys" and "hows" like drum tuning and save yourself the hassle. God knows most drummers (I've known) seem to be shooting in the dark at best, when it comes to tuning. I am amazed at how much you DONT have to use a ton of muffling when you create a sound with HEADS and TUNING.
Again, I realize sometimes dudes come in with their own stuff and we cannot dictate but we can at least understand that there are more ways than one to screw your sister....I mean ummmmm....skin a cat or something.
I hope this makes sense....at least a little.....I rambled a bit .
John F. Bonham......nice!
heylow
S
snibbel
New member
Re: Fear not!
Hey, nice article, interesting mp3s. Thx a bunch!
heylow said:
Hey, nice article, interesting mp3s. Thx a bunch!