Kick and Bass Ducking

[peritus]

I tried to implement the info below last night...

http://www.moultonlabs.com/more/principles_of_multitrack_mixing_the_kick_drum_bass_relationship/P3/

It sounds all well and good, but I'm still confused...

(all compressors are Waves RComp)

So I've got...

Track 1 (Kick).... Insert 1 is my kick comp... Send 1 is going to Bus 17, for side-chain use.

Track 2 (Bass)... Insert 1 is my regular bass comp... Insert 2 is a comp that uses Bus 17 for it's side-chain input (trigger), and supposedly ducking the bass ...

Questions:

1. Should I put my "regular bass comp" before or after the "ducking the bass comp"?

2. What kinds of basic settings should I be using for the ducking comp, other than the already mentioned quick attack & release? ( I keep my peaks very near to, but below, -8dbfs)

3. Am I totally lost with this?

 

[peritus]

....... unintentional post....

 

[LeeRosario]

It's like triggering a gate with another instrument.

In this case, you "patch" out a copy of your kick signal to an open I/O (in this case. an open buss)

then you set it to receive on the bass compressor's. In this case called a "side chain". On a gate, it's a key input.

Note that some compressors won't take that external source until you activate the external source via a switch.

For example, The D3 compressor plug-ins have this, while the LA-2A dosn't. The LA-2A plug-in (very common as a really good outboard bass compressor) just starts ducking immediately upon receving the signal.

The D3 flavor of compressors will usually have a key listen feature of some type to let you monitor the incoming signal. In other words, you press that key listen button and instead of hearing the bass, you'd hear the kick. That's how you know you're receiving the correct signal.

You would control the amount of ducking via the threshhold settings in that case. Whereas you can control the level of ducking through input or peak limiting settings in other types of compressors and leveling amps.

-The way you set that really depends on the groove and the BPM of the song. You just have to listen and apply as you go along.

-Whether you put the ducking compressor before or after will yield different results. I'd probably put the ducking comp after the leveler.

So going back to the LA-2A (leveling amplifier), you only get input & peak limiting controls, with a fixed attack, release, ratio and so forth. So it definitely helps to know the different types of compressors out there.

The concept remains the same both inside the box and with outboard gear, but the process changes quite a bit.

 

[peritus]

Okay...

What about the ratio?

 

[DM1]

(all compressors are Waves RComp)

RComp doesn't support sidechaining. How have you specified the sidechain input for your ducking compressor on track 2?

1. Should I put my "regular bass comp" before or after the "ducking the bass comp"?

I always put it last in the chain .. Do everything to get the bass sounding right, then as the last step, duck it out of the way when needed.

3. Am I totally lost with this?

If you're trying to do it all with RComps, then yes.

The only Waves compressor that supports sidechaining is the C1-sc. And even then, it's mono only, because you switch the the inputs from "stereo" to "key-and-signal".

More here: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=193384

 

[LeeRosario]

Okay...

What about the ratio?

Well depending on the style of music, I really don't' think anything above a 4:1 ratio. Or I should say, something that not excessively pumpy. It should sound good by itself, as well as into the song.

It's not any different than regular compression, only that it only turns on when it's triggered. So essentially, it's just waiting for outside instructions to do what it already does.

Does that make sense?

So you can try setting the compressor with the external source off, just like you would a regular compressor, and then turn on the external source and see what you get. You could adjust the threshold from there. You're just trying to get it to fit the kick drum, since they occupy the same frequencies.

You see, what Multon is trying to get you to do is to carve out spaces for the bass and kick so they never fight each other. It's another way to gel that performance together.

 

[peritus]

Well depending on the style of music, I really don't' think anything above a 4:1 ratio. Or I should say, something that not excessively pumpy. It should sound good by itself, as well as into the song.

It's not any different than regular compression, only that it only turns on when it's triggered. So essentially, it's just waiting for outside instructions to do what it already does.

Does that make sense?

So you can try setting the compressor with the external source off, just like you would a regular compressor, and then turn on the external source and see what you get. You could adjust the threshold from there. You're just trying to get it to fit the kick drum, since they occupy the same frequencies.

You see, what Multon is trying to get you to do is to carve out spaces for the bass and kick so they never fight each other. It's another way to gel that performance together.

Yes.. Makes sense now...

Thanks

 

[peritus]

RComp doesn't support sidechaining. How have you specified the sidechain input for your ducking compressor on track 2?


I always put it last in the chain .. Do everything to get the bass sounding right, then as the last step, duck it out of the way when needed.


If you're trying to do it all with RComps, then yes.

The only Waves compressor that supports sidechaining is the C1-sc. And even then, it's mono only, because you switch the the inputs from "stereo" to "key-and-signal".

More here: https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=193384

Pro Tools has a "key input" selector... I selected the bus mentioned above...

Maybe I'm confused, but I swear to you that rcomp does respond to the kick, via the gain reduction readout... When I get home I'll try the c1 sc....

Thanks for the help..