keyboard and vocals recording

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eme

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hey everyone
My name is emma and I am looking for some advice on up grading my recording quality.

I currently write many songs and record them on a Zoom H2 -just a one track just in my home. Then I lay all of the tracks down in Audacity on my laptop. I usually put a beat down first (using the keyboard drums) then plug in my headphones and play back the beat while I record me playing the keyboard or piano in time. then I do the same with the vocals. Then when I'm done I change the wav file into an MP3 and throw it on myspace.

So, what I want to do is get better quality so that my tracks can be turned up louder and sound reasonably professional. I am wanting to set up a little recording space in my home. I am willing to spend about $2000 if need be, but I really only think I need to buy a good mic to replace the Zoom - but then this probably requires a better sound card in my computer too. Or perhaps a better quality One track is the way to go??? Im not sure.
Or maybe getting a midi adaptor and plugging my keyboard straight into the computer would make a world of difference.. come to think of it this probably requires a better sound card in the computer too.

I just want to keep it really simple because this is as far as my recording knowledge goes.

I just thought of an idea.. if I got a sound card in my laptop would this allow me to make louder, better quality music without changing my current equipment and strategy? hmm

if you need more info in order to help me, my myspace music site is below so you can hear what Im trying to do. The purpose of this is to make stuff that could be used on tv. some of my stuff has been used before (on tv and internet vision) even in this low quality. But I want to make it a little better. Plus its a massive hobby of mine and I feel like Im wasting my time making low quality recordings, as they do take many hours.

Im not interesting paying for some professional studio recording because I feel recording songs will be an onoing thing for me for many many years to come and I simply do not have the cash to fund a professional studio. Also I work much better on my own. its really the only way.

www.myspace.com/emmaedwardsmusic

I appreciate ANY advice.
thanks for your time guys.
Emma
 
Hey emma- I think a computer interface and a good mic will be a big step up from what you are using now, will make creating your music a lot easier, and I think you can pull it off for much less than $2000

There is a very similar discussion going on a few threads down with a fella that wants to do something very similar to what you're doing. Here's the thread- you ought to read it; there's some good info in there. https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=292964




interfaces...
As far as interfaces, I think you're best two options are the Presonus Firebox (firewire interface) or the Lexicon Omega (usb interface)...
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Lexicon-Omega-Desktop-Recording-Studio?sku=245505

http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...bit96kHz-FireWire-Recording-System?sku=184133

Both of these interfaces will get you a) a pair of mic preamps that you can connect a mic to, b) a pair of line level inputs in addition to the preamp that you can plug your keyboard into and c) a midi interface that you can plug your keyboard into.
If you want to spend more, there are certainly more expensive interfaces out there, so with more inputs (that you probably don't need) and some with higher quality preamps and electronics.

Almost every interface will come with some type of recording software. Presonus comes with Cubase, which is fine. I prefer Reaper.




Mics...
So... then you need a good mic. Price range for mic can go from anywhere from $100 to well over your entire budget. *Most* people prefer a large diaphragm condenser for vocals. There are also good dynamic mics and ribbon mics out there... The AT4040 is talked about quite a bit around here http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.co...ne/audio-technica/AT4040/user_reviews/]AT4040-LargeDiaphragm-Studio-Condenser-Mic?sku=270427[/url] I havent used it so I can't speak for it. I also don't have much experience recording female vocals, so I can't really recommend anything from experience. But, you're in luck, because there is an entire section of this site dedicated to microphone questions. Its a few forums down...

In addition to the actual microphone, you'll need a mic stand and a popfilter is a good thing to have as well.




monitors...
You'll need a way to listen back to what you are recording and mixing. Powered (active) studio monitors will give you your best bang for the buck and are the easiest thing to set up. They have amplifiers built into them, so you dont need a separate amp. Most people here (including me) will tell you that monitors are for mixing and headphones are for tracking. Common consensus is that headphones are bad for mixing... With that said, spend good money on monitors, since these will be used for critical mix decision making. By cheap headphones (not tooo cheap- $20 - $30 is reasonable); the only real criteria as that they be a) loud enough to hear while tracking and b) closed back to limit the amount of audio "leaking" from the headphones back into the mic you are recording with...

You have LOTS of options for studio monitors..
http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/recording/studio-monitors/powered-monitors
a 6" woofer is probably fine for just keyboard and vocals. If you were doing real drums or bass, I'd say 8" woofer is a must. Keep in mind that when you are looking at studio monitors, they are usually priced EACH and obviously you'll need two :p I don't know why the hell they don't sell pairs, but whatever... KRK and Mackie are fairly popular.





acoustics...
Most people here treat their studio with DIY panels of rigid fiberglass- corners and first reflections are most critical. check out the studio Building forum a few forums down. If you don't want to build your own, check out Realtraps or GIK. http://www.gikacoustics.com/ http://www.realtraps.com/

-----------------------------------------

Thats a pretty "broad stroke" summary of what *I* would do... Definately research these things and make sure that you know WHAT you're buying and WHAT it does. That bit of advice right there will save you money. :)


I haven't really been tallying costs, but something like ~$200 for the interface, $300 or so for a mic, ~$400 for nice monitors, ~$400 for room treatments and through in another $100 for a mic stand, pop filter, cheapo headphones and cables to hook it all up... Thats about $1400. You can mail the leftover $600 to me. :D



Welcome to the money pit.:p
 
I've listened to quite a few of your tracks and see a lot of potential. You should invest in a quality micrphone, A/D (audio to digital) converter and a decent DAW and good monitors. Pro Tools, Logic Pro, Reaper, Sonar, Cubase and the like are excellent DAWs (digital audio workstations) and all offer an array of plugins to help polish your sound. You will need someone to help you with your drum tracks as it doesn't seem to be you forte. You will also need to study gain control, recording, and mixing technique which will take a while to learn along with the learning curve of using a professional class DAW and plugins. You have a very pretty voice but since you aren't interested in using a pro to semi-pro service, it will take an enormous effort on your part to learn the tools of the recording trade on a professional system. I haven't even touched upon your hardware requirements such as a dual drive computer with ample power to handle real multi tracking at 24 bit. Second drive should be high capacity used for audio only as you don't want your audio on your system drive. A $2k budget creates a huge limitation on getting a pro sound if it is at all possible. Good luck.
 
thanks so much, now i have an idea of where to start research. Very, Very helpful!!!!

Yes I realise it's a lot of work to learn the art of recording, but I have the motivation. And like I said I am not out to make a completely professional recording. I just want to improve what I have already.

Thanks for listening to the myspace tlennon.
 
Jeff D has posted pretty sound advice.

In essence, your immediate requirements seem to be:

1 an audio interface (USB is fine) which then becomes your soundcard.
2 a reasonable vocal microphone
3 a means of monitoring what you are doing.

I note that you use Audacity, which is okay. Like Jeff D, I prefer Reaper.
Room treatment is important, but it's not going to cause your world to come tumbling down if you are mainly messing with midi or playing your keyboard directly into the interface, you are using the mike just to record vocals, and you can find a nice big cluttered room to work in (the bigger the better).

As for your music . . . what you're putting out is awesome . . . a cross between Kate Bush and Kate Miller Heidke, plus your own essence of Emma. I found it to be interesting, original, unusual and captivating, and I reckon that your material would benefit with some improved recording and production; even as it is, the material is enthralling. I listened to the first three tracks ('This is who I am', 'Conversations' and 'The Real You'). I am impressed by the space and restraint in the arrangements, and the unconventional vocal arrangements.

I hope you persevere; I'll be waiting to hear it!
 
thanks for listening gecko and taking the time to give me some feedback, and all positive at that! Appreciate it.

Thanks for the encouragement I was feeling a little daunted after reading a few of the replies! But yes, I think its definatley do-able. So with the vocal recording space, how big is too big? Say I recorded the vocal in a hall or a church, is that better than say a reasonably sized home room with floorboards and big mirrors?
 
Your recording would actually benefit from a smaller room with as little ambient feedback as possible. That way, the effects that you choose are all that you here.
Actual room noise, once recorded cannot be removed.
Mind you, I'm into ribbons with a figure 8 pattern and happen to prefer a little room noise but that suits my genre and is hardly the norm.
 
Hey Jeff D, your advice was really helpful. I've ordered a lexicon omega w/ cubase.

I'm looking into monitors now and I was wondering if 4'' or 5'' would be adequate for my needs. The cheapest I can find a KRK pair of 6" is around AU$800-900.
thats way over what you suggested as a rough amount of $400.

OR a different brand-
Carillon monitor pair 6'':
http://www.billyhydemusic.com.au/shop/view/7545/carillon-active-studio-monitor-pair-asm-series/

and I wasn't sure if they were good enough because the amplifier ratings are a bit different to the KRK's. But they are about $300-400 cheaper....

any ideas ??

Thanks,
Emma
 
Why wouldn't eme just buy some quality headphones to listen to her recordings instead of spending hundreds on monitors JUST to hear what she did?
 
Nasty_Nate said:
Why wouldn't eme just buy some quality headphones to listen to her recordings instead of spending hundreds on monitors JUST to hear what she did?
Click to expand...

JUST hearing is pretty important when it comes time to make mixing decisions.
 
Nasty_Nate said:
Why wouldn't eme just buy some quality headphones to listen to her recordings instead of spending hundreds on monitors JUST to hear what she did?
Click to expand...

It's really difficult to make spatial decisions in a stereo mix using headphones for starters. There's a host of other reasons why this is not an ideal application for headphones. Do a quick search and you'll find plenty of em.:cool:
 
eme said:
Hey Jeff D, your advice was really helpful. I've ordered a lexicon omega w/ cubase.

I'm looking into monitors now and I was wondering if 4'' or 5'' would be adequate for my needs. The cheapest I can find a KRK pair of 6" is around AU$800-900.
thats way over what you suggested as a rough amount of $400.

OR a different brand-
Carillon monitor pair 6'':
http://www.billyhydemusic.com.au/shop/view/7545/carillon-active-studio-monitor-pair-asm-series/

and I wasn't sure if they were good enough because the amplifier ratings are a bit different to the KRK's. But they are about $300-400 cheaper....

any ideas ??

Thanks,
Emma
Click to expand...

Great Scott! Those KRK's are high over there!:( For those following along, 9$900 AU is about $800 US. That's about 2x as high as they are over here. Bizarre.

Never heard of Carillon and I can't find anything on the web for reviews, so it's hard to comment on them. That being said, they're likely better than headphones and probably passable monitors. The Lexicon Omega is a pretty cool unit, but it has a couple of issues. If you find that it works great for a few hours and then disconnects, there's a quick fix for it. PM me if it happens and I'll walk you through it.

I'll echo Gecko's sentiments regarding your music. It's ridiculously good and the fidelity is surprising given what you are working with. Apparently, you have a good set of ears attached to that noggin of yours. That's 80% of the battle right there. Good on ya.:cool:
 
I'm also in Australia, and in the market for some powered monitors. I can confirm the ridiculous price down here for monitors. The tyranny of distance, perhaps? I can't help but wonder how thick the gold plating is on the KRK's.:)

And I haven't seen a Zoom R16 here yet, but the HD16 is about $900. I wonder if sweetwater will ship internationally.

Amanda
 
hey thanks for the advice guys (and cheers for listening to my music)

I have seen a Zoom R16 in a music shop at my local mall. from memory it cost about $770.00 but i was worried that the quality would be much the same as my zoom h2 that I use now.

Prices are much cheaper in US and with our dollar the way it is at the moment its definately cheaper to order things from the US, even with the $50 (or so) postage its still cheaper. The only problem is finding companies that ship internationally on the brands you want..

I think if I order a pair of KRK's 6'' from US it was going to cost AU$650 (incl. postage). which is still heaps cheaper then here..

I was trying to find some cheaper brands here that have the same sort of sound quality and size... its proving quite difficult.
 
Emma

If you're not in a screaming hurry, don't forget that Billy Hydes, Allans and the like will probably be having their one off craaaaazy bargain sales in a week or so's time. You may pick up a bargain, never know your luck.

As well, it's important to have monitors and to learn your monitors, but as the music you're trying to record is relatively simple (in the sense that you're using keyboards, voice etc. but not getting into guitars and massive multi-tracking) then I'd argue that you don't need the world's best monitors, just reasonable ones, a good ear and practice.

I've got a pair of Behringer something or others which didn't cost all that much, have mixed an album on them, and strangely enough no-one ever tells me that I need better monitors to get a better result.

Food for thought.

Perhaps, if you can tear yourself away from the northern beaches in summer, head for Turramurra Music and see what they have on offer. They do good deals from time to time..

Good luck...
 
I'll agree with Armistice to an extent- a more dense mix- i.e. more instrumentation all fighting for the same frequency range in a mix would warrant in my opinion a very accurate monitoring/room setup so you can hear the minuet changes that small tweaks make in order to fit multiple guitar, bass, drum tracks etc. Being that you are really only mixing 2 things- piano and your voice and those two things typically compliment each other as opposed to fighting for space, you could get by with less accurate monitors - that is to say that, you wont HAVE to make the tiny tweaks that are required when doing a more complicated mix.

Anyway, sucks about the pricing over there. Popular brands would be MAudio, Event, KRK and I've actually read positive things about the Behringer Truths. I've only ever used my Event TR8's so I can't comment other than that.

I think treating your mixing room would be a bigger difference than whether you choose one (reasonable / comparable) monitor or the other.
 
eme said:
saw a pair today that are reasonably priced:

Samson Resolv A6 Active Studio Reference Monitors AU$500 (for pair)
6.5''
Click to expand...

That might be your buy, right there. Still $200 higher than here, but not a bad price considering what everything else is running over there. It reviews pretty well, but most of the reviews I read mention a slight presence in the upper octaves, very much ala NS10M, but a very good bottom end response. For the material you are working with, this upper presence might actually be a bit of a boon as soon as you learn how your mixes translate.
 
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