Just finished this today....

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sonusman

sonusman

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Been working with these guys for the last 4 days. Not bad for a bunch of young guys. Average age in this band is 20 years old.



One of a 4 song demo. It started out as a CD project, but the band just wasn't quite ready to go there yet. We stopped after 4 songs of drum/bass tracking and finished the 4. I will be producing them when they finally do record a full CD. I think there is a bit of potential here. I like the art in their music.

Ed
 
Ed,
Speed check? Is the song supposed to be 5:33? That seemed long, and what with the "Wretched" thing last week. If this is at the correct rate then feel free to smack me.

Everything sounds great, just a little low on the scale...

Queue
 
It sounded good to me. The best balance as usual. The distorted? guitar sounded a bit thin. I am used to hearing more bass guitar in your mixes.

The vox sounded good, but I think it could be better. It sounded a bit cold. Also , the space the instuments were in sounded a bit flat.

peace
 
The Mix sounds pretty good, but this sounds like the kind of band that should have more upfront sound. Seems like theres a little to much reverb, and it makes them sound distant. The snare also sounds like he is beating on a piece of wood. I dont know if theres something you could do with that, maybe with eq or compression. but overall it sounds good.
 
Gee, when that singer's voice came in, it was *perfect* for the music. The backup singer sounds like one of the guys that sings for Tragically Hip. I bet it was tough mixing that backup guitar on the left in the intro...

I like this music. I like the sound on that guitar at 3.40 - sweet... Damn, I don't understand what everybody's bitching about, this is a good tune, well-played, well-recorded and well-mixed. What the fuck do you want? LOL

Good work, Ed. Producing these guys? You a producer? I'd like to see that! Don't you have to become a well-known engineer before they let you be a producer? :D
 
Geez, okay damnit, I'll listen...just quit that damn pouting. Am I going to have to start pestering you at AudioForums to get a rise out of you anymore?
 
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Recently, I installed my Soundcraft Ghost in the studio I am working at (actually, the day after I did this mix). I was quite shocked to go back and listen to tracks on tape that were recorded using the Yamaha O2R console the studio owns (we don't use the preamps from either console). Me and the owner of the studio agreed that the Ghost offered a much more "seperated" sound without any eq, and that we would have tracked certain sounds differently. So, the Ghost is staying in now.....:) The studio owner really likes how stuff he tracked sounds through it (I told him he would) and we have some very involved projects to mix in the next 2 months.

A lot of my recent work I have posted has been from clients working on very limited budgets. In the past, a lot of the stuff I have posted had the benefit of a lot of time (in the order of a couple days per song) in production. Plus, after spending 4 years working out of my old mobile rig, with it's inherent nuetral low end acoustics, I am now still learning a new control room that was not designed well or treated very well acoustically, and still trying to learn new monitors. It has been a frustrating process, but, I am still working! :) Also, clients have had their hand in these mixes. They usually don't have the kind of budget so that I can burn them mixes for them to hear at home before they decide, then come back and do things differently. THEY have to learn the room too, and that takes time. In my old studio, I would usually run a different mix, without the client there of the way I thought it should sound. They would usually hear that and agree to use it. At this studio I am working at now, the owner does not want me doing that (mainly because the studio books a lot of hours in a week), so the client is always there. They pay ME, and my job is to give them what they want. Yes, I do "warn" them, but it is not good business to do anything other than what THEY decide is best for their mixes, even if it can be done in a much better way. Frustrating, but, I cannot argue with the amount of hours I have been working.

The above song was a total of about 9 hours. It was one of 4 songs they recorded/mixed/mastered in 35 hours. That is not a lot of time for production. Many big label released products would spend 2-3 days per song for production, if not more. So, consider the factors involved. Limited time/limited talent/no producer. I think they got an excellent "get a gig" demo here....:) When they come back to do a full length CD, they will also trust me a whole lot more, and will know that their budget will have to be stepped up to get the type of sound that they want.

Ed
 
I would definately work on the drum sound, especially the snare sound (another snare or maybe tune it better). And the drummer could use a bit of practice, he kinda sucks (you get a better drumsound on a somewhat crappy kit with a good drummer).
everything else sounds good, except that guy who sings backup vocals. He´s way out of tune and turned up to loud I think.
So far I have only listened at low volumes, so my opinions could change slightly. Not that Im the greatest engineer myself, but i have good ears.
this is just my humble opinion.
Jonas H
 
Given their age(s) I thought the band did pretty good...especially if this is their first time recording in a studio. Liked the lead vox.

I agree that the overall level of the recording seemed low. I agree with the criticism on the drums...I'm thinkin' maybe a whole new kit would help soundwise. There were a couple of strange out of time breaks (like around 2:30 I think it was....and again near the end). Was that editing or the drummer being a little off time?

Jonkans comment about the back-up vocal(s) sounds valid to me.

I was happy to read Ed's reply....gives some insight into what sound engineers deal with on a day to day basis.
 
Indeed, this is a day to day type of demo. Some are worse, some are better.

The drummer in this band is 18, and had a crappy Tama Rockstar set. He tuned them the way he liked them and that is what I had to work with. On their limited budget, not time to play around with much ambiant micing techniques, or to experiment with different drum tunings. Indeed, the drums and bass were the main reason why they didn't continue with a full length recording here. Once they heard what it sounded like on tape, tried it again, found that they couldn't get a take that was squeaky tight, it was decided to scale back to a 4 song demo. They realized that they were not ready to release a full length as a band. They realized they need to work with a producer to maximize the potential of their sound. They realized that $2000 or $3000 dollars is not going to produce a hit record! :)

No editing on this stuff. No budget for that type of thing. They actually played to a click track if you can believe that.

Most of the guitars and vocal work was first or second take stuff with a couple punch in's. The drums and bass took up a full 16 hours of the 35 they spent on this!

One thing people don't realize, unless you work FOR other people in audio work is that you are totally at the mercy of their talent level, and what they think they want to hear. I can "suggest", but usually find that the lower the talent level, the less of the "suggestions" they utilize. If things are not going well, and you are not paid to produce the recording, it is not very good business to say "Hey guys, you are pretty much stinking the place up with your chops right now, how about you come back in a week after you practice this stuff and we can get on with it".....nooooooooooooooooo, you sort of suck it up, and try to "help" them into a better performance. But, there is a line to even that! One of the things that the owner of the studio I work at is VERY leary of is the "potential offend". This aspect of audio work "offends" me really, but again, it is not good business to even say a single thing that may offend the client. When they ask "What did YOU think Ed"? I have to say "That was pretty good. What did YOU think of it", and hope that they don't push for more comment from me! What I may have to say to them could really be a disaster in a PR aspect for the business (oh yes, I have created these disasters in the past! ;) )

If I had the tapes still, I would be glad to hear what some of YOU guys would have done in about two hours mixing this song. Now that would be interesting. I don't get the benefit of "taking my time", or "I don't feel up to tackling this today, think I will mix it tomorrow", or the freedom to tackle the stuff that I don't like. When the client says "Can't you put some reverb on that vocal track, and turn it up"? I can't say "Are you crazy"? It is also a whole lot of fun to have 4 guys sitting 6' behind you, chatting away while I try to find some balance in the mix. Try that sometime! It is loads of fun to hear the squeaky voiced guy go on about his girlfriend while you try to mix! :( Or to deal with a badly intonated bass track and try to make it "stand out a little more", or to tame that one vocal line that was 8dB hotter than anything else, but is in the quietest part of the song and totally inappropriate to the overall dynamics. Top off having to "get the phone" because their girlfriend is calling, fetching coffee, explaining why you cannot turn down the hihat without turning down the snare because the dude played the hihat way too loud in comparison to the snare, so there is nasty bleed, explaining to the bass player that those notes that don't ring out true and sound like a fart were actually the WAY HE PLAYED IT, you can see that in 2 hours, a few things are going to be left undone in the mix, and god for bit, we cannot spend any MORE money.

Yeah, it is swell doing this stuff for a living. And the money is killer!!! :rolleyes:

Ed
 
Can't polish a turd, eh?

Now I definitely never want to become a pro recording engineer.

I don't know if it's just me, but I think there's some kind of boom in the bass on certain chords in the intro, sounds nasty to my ears - at 0:31 and 0:43. The bass player's tone sucks pretty much, by the way, but I guess it's him and his instrument. And, the snare sound, but you've heard that already.

Other than that, it sounds real good. You can tell that it's done by a professional and not a simple homebrewer.
 
You're being picky. Considering what Ed said about time constraints in both tracking and mixing, this is pretty good stuff. Interesting to me though that Jonkan and mac2 spotted the lousy drum kit from the mp3 sound - I didn't clock that. But what do you think of the SONG? Get your prioritiies straight. You got golden ears, okay. But golden priorities? There's three things in this racket: the song, the performance and the recording. The first two take slight priority.

"When they ask "What did YOU think Ed"? I have to say "That was pretty good. What did YOU think of it", and hope that they don't push for more comment from me!"

It must drive you crazy to bite your tongue, dude. It ain't your style on this bbs, anyway. :D
 
Re: Can't polish a turd, eh?

Oysterman said:
Now I definitely never want to become a pro recording engineer.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, but every once in a while, you get to work with clients like this too! :)
. They make it worthwhile to sit through the not so good stuff.....:D

Ed
 
dobro said:
You're being picky. *snip* But what do you think of the SONG? Get your prioritiies straight.
This IS the MIXING clinic, right? Not the SONGWRITING or MUSIC PERFORMANCE clinic? Or maybe I clicked on the wrong link and am too stupid to realize where I am... ;)
 
Re: Re: Can't polish a turd, eh?

sonusman said:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh, but every once in a while, you get to work with clients like this too! :)
:eek: Now THAT completely blew me away! I think I've gotta sit down... wait, I am already, um, er... whew... :o
 
Yeah? Give this a try:



I have many others that are in the same ballpark of production.

Maybe this:



Of course, all these other productions enjoyed much better songwriting, musicians, and far more time to produce, with producers that understand what is going on (sometimes me....)

Ed
 
The thing that stood out the most to me about this mix was teh snare. Jesus, it was snappy. I expect to hear a softer, less focused snare sound for this genre. I could see this snare driving me nuts after three listens (I'm on my second now). Maybe a sever compressor with a really fast attack and long release would tame that snap a little. I don't know if it's the mix or the fact that the singer is eating all of his words, but I can't understand most of the lyrics. I like the rest of the mix, but my second listen is done, and I'm stopping before the thrid to prevent a headache. (Of course I could listen quiet, but what's the point in that?)

I don't like the song, there's no good hook, but that's nothing that can be "fixed in the mix." I like the intro the best, but that part doesn't appear again in the song.
 
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by dobro
You're being picky. *snip* But what do you think of the SONG? Get your prioritiies straight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"This IS the MIXING clinic, right? Not the SONGWRITING or MUSIC PERFORMANCE clinic? Or maybe I clicked on the wrong link and am too stupid to realize where I am..."

Yeah, you're right, you're in the mp3 mixing clinic - that's what it's called, and so your response is fair. But in my view, the mix serves the music. This mp3 sounds pretty good to me on three counts: the song, the performance, and the recording. My call's a global one. I appreciate the comments about the details, but I want them to be in context.

This has got nothing to do with you personally, but it's a bitch of mine about the recording scene these days - it seems obsessed with perfection, and I think that's bullshit. You get machine beats that come out of a box, you get pitch correction, you get mixes all fixed up squeaky clean and compressed and normalized right up loud loud loud.

It seemed to me that a lot of the comments on the song Ed put up here focussed on details and ignored the song. But the song's the main thing. Even in the mix.
 
:) @ dobro! I am not a "fix it" type of guy for demo's. Most of my recordingsenjoy no editing, and very little automation at mix. I detest drum machines except as a "augment" to a "real" drum track. I have never Autotuned anything that I have posted. I agree that people get hung up on "perfect" production. I have downloaded many songs in the clinic here that had very stale production to it. No character, life, or vibrancy. Of course, very little of what I hear in the clinic is actually a "band". Most of it enjoyed the person spending as much time as they want on production before posting the results. Most is far from a "collaberation" between engineer and artist. I seldom get the benefit of unlimited takes in tracking and as many hours as I want at mix. Maybe 1/3 of the stuff I post was all "my call" about the mix. The rest is quick recordings and the client "helping me" ( :rolleyes: ) with the mix.

Am I being defensive? You bet. As I have a right to be under the circumstances. I can take some criticism. I HAVE to take some criticism to excel in audio production. I take it from "peers" all the time, but mainly, the criticism is coupled with an accute understanding of the challenges of the production. But, few things posted in this mixing clinic sound this good with "real drums". Few things posted in this clinic were done with the person posting having so little ultimate say in how it was tracked and the final outcome. Yet, even this quicky demo song sounds much better than most of the stuff posted in here. But, no sobbing here. I got PAID to do this demo, and the client left VERY pleased with the outcome. Pleased enough to consider me to produce their next recording.

I think dobro mentioned in another thread of mine that one should only use what I post as a "benchmark" for your own production. That seems prudent. Read my comments on how the production was done and take that into account while listening. Ask yourself "Could I have done this under those circumstances, and could I have generated these kinds of results?". I provided links to other productions with much better talent and much more time spent in production above. Take a listen to those. Ask youself those same questions yet again....;)

I stated earlier that it would be fun to hear what some of these people would do in less than two hours on this mix. I would never have a way of knowing if someone spent more time than that on it, but then again, I suppose you only have my word that I spent so little time on it. I think I may contact the client and asked them if they mind me doing this. I like the idea of this experiment. I should be falling on a significant amount of server space here very soon, and can just upload the tracks to it and anyone with a high speed connection could download them all in about 4-6 hours. I will see if the server administrator will allow this kind of data to pass on the server and start another thread.

Peace out bro's.

Ed
 
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