Journey of Old, original song

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Dusty Ol' Bones

Dusty Ol' Bones

Full of green dust
I posted a song last year and got really good comments, most on my performance though. So I've been working on laying down a guitar track and overdubbing vocals, as opposed to recording everything live. I was surprised how much easier it is to sing when I'm not beating on my guitar at the same time.

This song was recorded by overdubbing my vocals on top of my guitar performance then having a friend overdub his acoustic part and some electric as well. He wrote the chords and I added words. It's a little more complex than the last one I posted.

I would post the lyrics but I want to see if people can understand what I'm singing; may add them later. Of course I would love comments on the entire mix to see if I'm making any progress on that front.

Thanks for listening!

 
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Guitar is coming through really well. I would suggest that you do the vocals again. I think it will be much better if rehearsed, the vocals will flow better and give it some groove and not be so robotic. You have some pitch issues, but I think that is because the song isn't well rehearsed (it takes awhile to know a song, even if it is yours). This will also give you an opportunity to be ready for those changes and push out more air or get ready for a pitch change. I know when I do my songs, it takes at least 20-30 times before I can get the vocals to feel natural, often times more. It is a new song and has to be be learned.

If you give it another take, please post. I think this could be a really great recording.
 
Thank you for your comments, I really appreciate it. I consider the song as having two vocal categories: the body verses and then the chorus/bridge part. With the body verses, I am kinda going for a Jack Johnson type vocal sound at least from his first couple of albums. He has a softish voice and sometimes almost talk-whispers the lyrics with some volume, if that makes any sense.

On the AGF forum the other day, someone said Neil Young can't sing. This statement caused some folks to make a distinction between a singer having a pretty voice vs having singing ability. I don't know if I will ever have a pretty voice and that is not my goal. I consider myself a folkish singer songwriter who looks up to guys like Woody Guthrie, Dylan, Guy Clark, Townes Van Zandt, Tom Waits, even Blaze Foley. Not that I have good singing ability either, just that polished and perfect is not necessarily a priority.

With all that being said, you mentioned pitch issues, which I wish to fix. Are you finding the pitch to be equally off throughout the entire performance, or that the bridge/chorus suffers more than the main parts? If I only re-recorded the bridge parts, do you think the song would still improve significantly?

Please note that I am not challenging any of your comments. I'm mainly wanting to see if any of the original vocal performance is salvageable. I run into rehearsal issues because I live in a tiny one bedroom apartment with at least one neighbor who works nights, so belting it out at home is very difficult to accomplish. My bandmate also works overnights at a hospital, so I am only able to rehearse at his place one day a week. I still sing and play at home, but not as loudly as I wish I could. I should also mention that all of my recording equipment is at my bandmate's house, so if I plan to record on a specific day, it has been a week since I've rehearsed at full volume.

I'm thinking I might need to warm up more intensely on recording day, before we prepare to hit the record button. I have previously worried about exhausting my voice before recording a few takes but maybe I'm being too timid. I'll peruse youtube to see if I can find out how professional singers warm up on recording day. Of course, pro singers probably have the ability to sing and belt it out every day of the week.

I think if I work hard enough to address the pitch issues, the robotic aspect will probably work itself out with the extra reps. Thank you again for your valuable input.
 
This is just up to taste, but I would slap on some plate reverb on the vocals. But then again, I add reverb to almost everything. Have you added compression to the vocals? Vocals gets a bit loud at around 2:27.
 
I think the pitch issues are due to not being comfortable with the song. If you sing it and practice several times, it will most likely sort itself out.

While voice is an acquired taste for sure, they all have one main thing in common, they are well rehearsed. Every word needs to be anticipated and you have to know where you are going before it is time to get there. While singing is natural, knowing something well makes ones ability to be more melodic that much easier. If you are doing it in a DAW, it not like using too much tape :)
 
Jeffaklumpen said:
This is just up to taste, but I would slap on some plate reverb on the vocals. But then again, I add reverb to almost everything. Have you added compression to the vocals? Vocals gets a bit loud at around 2:27.
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Thank you for your comments. At the moment, I am looking at redoing the vocals. So I will definitely keep your input on my to-do list.
 
DM60 said:
I think the pitch issues are due to not being comfortable with the song. If you sing it and practice several times, it will most likely sort itself out.

While voice is an acquired taste for sure, they all have one main thing in common, they are well rehearsed. Every word needs to be anticipated and you have to know where you are going before it is time to get there. While singing is natural, knowing something well makes ones ability to be more melodic that much easier. If you are doing it in a DAW, it not like using too much tape :)
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Thank you, I see what you're saying. The song is two years old and I practice it on guitar all the time. But, I did not get a lot of practice singing to the recorded track as opposed to singing with a guitar in my hands. I think if I go back to singing to the recorded track, I will get more comfortable. Thanks again!
 
The wheels are in motion to redo vocals. Might take a week or two as I have some other non recording stuff going on at the moment, which is fine because I'll be able to practice vocals more.
 
I think the vocal needs a lot of work. Not so much the notes, but the delivery. You're hitting the syllables dead on and it sounds amateurish. It's okay to sing over the bar, and it's okay to let some notes ring out even if it means leaving out some syllables. Otherwise it sounds plodding and uninspired.

It's a good song. The vocal delivery doesn't do it justice.
 
Thank you for your detailed assessment. I agree that I make amateur music and I appreciate posters like you offering honest feedback to help me change that.

Please forgive my deficits in vocabulary. When you say sing over the bar, do you mean bar as a unit of measure? Or is it being loud enough to be heard over an expanse of inebriated folks in a literal pub?

Sorry, I'm also not understanding leaving out syllables. Do you mean leaving the -t off the end of a word if it's at the end of the vocal line? Or the -ed off a past tense word at the end of a line? Or more than that?

I think I heard somewhere that it can be a good idea reference our tracks, like listen to an artist with the sound we are looking for. Not necessarily to copy it, just as a reference. Are there any artists or music videos you think might be a good starting point?

I apologize for asking so many questions. I've been doing this a while but only relatively recently have I begun humbling myself enough to ask for help on the right topics.

Thank you again.
 
Vocals are hard. I'm definitely not telling you you make "amateur music." I'm saying your vocal delivery pegs you as an amateur vocalist, which is where everybody starts.

By "over the bar" I mean to say vocal phrases can be stretched out or shortened so that they don't always begin or end on the beat. Like a guitar solo, you can hold a note longer or truncate it to make it more like speech and less like something aligned to a grid. Being able to deliver vocals that aren't locked to another instrument is an important skill.

Often when writing a lyric, we all tend to have the perfect number of syllables to effect the rhyme scheme we have in mind. However, and with exceptions, this often sounds stiff and repetetive. For example, you could sing "I will never listen to a word you say" and it would align on a grid of eighth notes in 4/4. Or you could sing "I'll never listen" over the same part and give the notes some room to breathe and a chance for the vocalist to introduce some nuance into the lyric.

Vocals aren't drums. They don't have to lock onto a grid. Sometimes you want to do that, but often you don't.

If I'm baffling you with this, PM me your phone number, I'll call you and demonstrate. :)
 
I understand what you're saying about training for better vocals. Everyone starts at white belt.

Thanks for explaining your concepts in terms that I can understand. I'm no longer baffled by what you were saying. I will definitely begin working on these items as well as expanding my resources of learning.

And thank you for the kind gesture. If you wish to record something quick on the cell phone and post it here, I'm sure no one would object. At the moment I prefer not to exchange numbers. I'm certain you are an upstanding and honest person. I'll try to stick around the forums more and get a better feel for things. It's not because I have trust issues with internet strangers but because I have trust issues with lizard people.

Thanks again, my friend :)
 
Really nice arpeggios, they drew me in. Yeah vocals are a bitch I feel your pain. I find it's good not overthink it. Mix is good, no probs with clarity.
 
Dusty Ol' Bones said:
I posted a song last year and got really good comments, most on my performance though. So I've been working on laying down a guitar track and overdubbing vocals, as opposed to recording everything live. I was surprised how much easier it is to sing when I'm not beating on my guitar at the same time.

This song was recorded by overdubbing my vocals on top of my guitar performance then having a friend overdub his acoustic part and some electric as well. He wrote the chords and I added words. It's a little more complex than the last one I posted.

I would post the lyrics but I want to see if people can understand what I'm singing; may add them later. Of course I would love comments on the entire mix to see if I'm making any progress on that front.

Thanks for listening!

Click to expand...

Did you compress any of this stuff as you were recording it?

In answer to your question: It's not only easy to understand what you're singing, it's too easy, if you know what I mean.
 
Bulls Hit said:
Really nice arpeggios, they drew me in. Yeah vocals are a bitch I feel your pain. I find it's good not overthink it. Mix is good, no probs with clarity.
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Thank you. My bandmate wrote the music for this one and he knows a little theory as it pertains to guitar. I'm a guitar hack that likes to write words.
 
dobro said:
Did you compress any of this stuff as you were recording it?
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Yes, I compressed while tracking. I use a UA Volt 476P interface, which has an 1176 type compressor. The compressor has three settings: Vocals, Guitar, and Fast (drums). So I engaged the vocal compressor on vocal track and guitar compressor on guitar tracks. I also added a touch of LA2A compressor to vocals afterwards but I admit, I hardly know what I'm doing. Someone said I should look into parallel compression.

dobro said:
In answer to your question: It's not only easy to understand what you're singing, it's too easy, if you know what I mean.
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Thank you. I've historically considered myself a folk singer. I love guys like 1960s Dylan up to Blood on the Tracks. Townes Van Zandt is a big influence on my songwriting as is James McMurtry. One thing these guys have in common is they enunciate their words. Only recently have I begun widening my palette by adding electric guitar, but I don't really consider myself a rock n roller much less a rock vocalist. It is important to me that my lyrics are understood by the audience.

When I buy a new CD, I'm the guy who opens it up and looks for the lyrics. If I can hear the words without reading them, all the better. But the words are important enough to me that I always want to know what's being said... or sung.

Sorry, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by being too easy to understand the lyrics. Is this an engineering observation? Like I maybe need to sink the vocals into the mix a little more? Or that you think I might need to change the way I sing, as has already been recommended? I have no problems with either suggestion; I'm here to learn.
 
Dusty Ol' Bones said:
Yes, I compressed while tracking. I use a UA Volt 476P interface, which has an 1176 type compressor. The compressor has three settings: Vocals, Guitar, and Fast (drums). So I engaged the vocal compressor on vocal track and guitar compressor on guitar tracks. I also added a touch of LA2A compressor to vocals afterwards but I admit, I hardly know what I'm doing. Someone said I should look into parallel compression.
Click to expand...

I use parallel compression on a track with uneven levels (eg vocals) when I want to bring up the level of the quiet stuff without affecting the peaks. I can be gentler with the ordinary compression then.

Dusty Ol' Bones said:
Sorry, I'm not exactly sure what you mean by being too easy to understand the lyrics. Is this an engineering observation? Like I maybe need to sink the vocals into the mix a little more? Or that you think I might need to change the way I sing, as has already been recommended? I have no problems with either suggestion; I'm here to learn.
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No, I meant that the lyrics are ultra clear and easy to hear. You were concerned that the lyrics might not be clear enough, but you don't have to worry at all about that.
 
BTW, I asked about whether you compressed on the way in because I read your post in the Mixing Forum talking about that. (I never compress on the way in - for one thing, there's no need to. Why? Because with 24-bit recording, you can just lower the recording level to something that doesn't clip and noise floor is no issue. For another thing, I don't want to commit to a compression setting at the recording stage that I can't undo later when I'm mixing.) But I wanted to hear what 'compressed on the way in' sounds like. To my ear, the way you did it on this one, it sounds okay.

Having said all that, I'm exploring compression (especially on vocals) more these days. Gregory Scott is great on this. Here's a link to his video on how to hear compression:

He's got another one on parallel compression. He's worth a listen no matter what he's talking about.
 
dobro said:
I use parallel compression on a track with uneven levels (eg vocals) when I want to bring up the level of the quiet stuff without affecting the peaks. I can be gentler with the ordinary compression then.



No, I meant that the lyrics are ultra clear and easy to hear. You were concerned that the lyrics might not be clear enough, but you don't have to worry at all about that.
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Thank you, I just looked up sort of a basic definition of parallel compression. Something about duplicating a track, compressing it, then blending back with the original track.

I will experiment with parallel compression on this mix as I practice to redo the vocals. I really do think I can put together a better performance, especially on the loud parts.
 
dobro said:
BTW, I asked about whether you compressed on the way in because I read your post in the Mixing Forum talking about that. (I never compress on the way in - for one thing, there's no need to. Why? Because with 24-bit recording, you can just lower the recording level to something that doesn't clip and noise floor is no issue. For another thing, I don't want to commit to a compression setting at the recording stage that I can't undo later when I'm mixing.) But I wanted to hear what 'compressed on the way in' sounds like. To my ear, the way you did it on this one, it sounds okay.

Having said all that, I'm exploring compression (especially on vocals) more these days. Gregory Scott is great on this. Here's a link to his video on how to hear compression:

He's got another one on parallel compression. He's worth a listen no matter what he's talking about.
Click to expand...

Yes, after the discussion in the other thread, moving forward I probably won't be adding compression during tracking. At least not for vocals. I'd like to be able to adjust or undo it afterwards.

Thank you for posting the video. That was great. Imma have to watch it again and take notes.

I also saved his parallel compression video for later. Seems a little deep for this late at night. Thanks again!
 
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