John Prine and the art of lyrics

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teknomike

teknomike

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Pulling out the vinyl tonight...
I'm so inspired by this guy - he writes some of the best lyrics to me - I want to be able to write as naturally as he can.
I mean, he can say more in a couple of lines than I can express in a whole song.
"My father died, on the porch outside, on an August afternoon. I sipped bourbon and cried with a friend by the light of the moon."
I mean, come on - does that not stir something in you ?
or even
"The sun can play tricks with your eyes on the highway. The moon can lay sideways till the ocean stands still. And a person can't tell his best friend he loves him. Till time has stopped breathing, you're alone on the hill."
Shit, I want to write something that people can remember (don't we all). One of those songs that someone quotes lines from like I'm doing after a couple beers.
I've written a couple things that make me feel like I'm doing something that will last, but to do it consistantly - well, maybe, maybe not.
I've never posted anything to this forum, but have read a lot of your stuff - I should be telling you all when I like something, or when I don't, but I'm not much of a poster, so I'll usually lay back. I will say that most of the stuff I've read in here I like.
I've just had a bit of an epiphany tonight. :) Maybe I'll pop something in for a critique - am having a bit of trouble with one old song, and how I should record it. Another drink may do it.
Cheers, all. Keep on writing !
mike
 
Oh, Canada!

Why not check out Bruce Cockburn? He's Canadian (if you're not already familiar with him...) He writes differently then John Prine but with equal emotional weight.

There are probably 10 gazillion other fine examples depending on the style of music you want to work with.

I think part of learning to write strong lyrics is listening to strong lyric writers. You don't have to steal from them but you can learn a lot about creating a word picture or "feeling" from a sentence or phrase.

Z
 
Hey Mike,I feel that way about Tom Waits and John Lennon..Sometimes the simplest thing is the best...Example

Verse1..
"I'm havein' trouble with a old song"
"Maybe another drink will do {it}"
"Its about the moon and you"
"All those things we been through"
"I'm havein' trouble with a old memory"
"Maybe another drink will do {it}"

Chorus..

"Couple of things I do seem like they will last"
"Some songs can't be be written fast
"So I"
"I wrote with regret"
"I write to remember"
"But its all about you and me in the past"

Verse2..

"I'm pullin out the vinyl of some old song"
"The one with the scratches and violins"
"Its how I'm feelin' 'bout you"
"Those things we thought we'd do"
"I'm havein' trouble with a old song"
"Maybe another drink will do"

Bridge..

"I wanna write a song that some people will remember"
"And if I write it well"
"Its only to remember you"
"I wanna write a song of a lifetime of rememberin' you"

Kinda loosly based on what you said in your post..It may not be good but I did "catch the train" for a moment..Simple coversation seems like the best way to write sometimes..Good luck

P.S. habit I had to edit..I can't help it..LOL

Don
 
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Don rocks! He is defines the infliction, infection and affection of and for song writing.
 
Thank you Theron!I really appreciate the kind words!Kinda did the Menu thing{O Henry..W.S.Porter}..We all have great conversations now and then that we take for granted..Mikes post has some really nice emotion {honest}and imagery.Sometimes a writer has to see it and just tell it..Kinda like a photographer..The pictures are always there , he just "shoots" it..

Don
 
I would be interested to know whether anyone has ever heard some of Dan Bern's stuff. He used to play around here in a little club about twice a year. But he went with an agency about six or eight months ago and I don't think he's gonna play here anymore.
He has a new CD out, too. I'm thinking it's the first time he's turned control of his stuff over to someone else, but that's just a guess.
One song you must hear is, "True Revolutionaries". It's probably on his second or third CD. If any of you know this song, or make an effort to check it out, I'd love to hear your opinion. I have the impression that Dan is a great, un-discovered songwriter, but maybe more people know about him than I am aware of.
 
Hope you all don't think the lyrics I posted were mine - I was quoting John Prine to show the imagery and expression I find in his lyrics that make me want to remember them.
Guess the beers affected *my* expression :)

But Don did hit the nail on the head when he wrote:

"I'm havein' trouble with a old song"
"Maybe another drink will do"

Well, I guess another drink didn't do, 'cause I got nowhere...

I had written a song long ago, an account of the effects of war on mankind, and somehow lost everything but the first page (it was 3 pages long - very epic...:rolleyes: ).
I've never been able to capture what else I wrote - don't even remember it (the music came very easily as well, but I think one of the reasons I don't remember the rest of the song is that I never played it fully).

As it is, I think the first page sits well on it's own, and what I have done is taken another tune, and grafted it on - it works, but not exactly what I had in mind from the beginning.
I think I have it on file - maybe I'll post it for your perusal. Typing it out again will be a bitch, though...
Thanks for all your words of support.
mike
 
Hey Mike ,Think I want to develope the lyrics that I did as a responce to your post..Is that cool with you?

Don
 
even the best songwriters get blocked.

example: hank williams jr's song "I just ain't been able to write no songs"...its an older song before he really hit big

i just ain't been able to write no songs,
guess i have been gone for too long'
i hate to but i've got to get back to gettin' stoned,
cause i just ain't been able to write no songs

i just ain't been able to keep no wife
lord knows i tried hard a couple of times,
they always say "its gonna be your music or me"
and i just ain't been able to agree

i just ain't never made no superstar
but i'll just keep on playing this white guitar
i don't know how long or how far
but i just love to play those honky tonk bars

i hate to but i've got to get back to gettin' stoned
cause i just ain't been able to write no songs
 
Dan Bern

He records on Ani DiFranco's Righteous Babe label as I recall. He's not a secret. I like "I am the Messiah" (I'm not sure whether that's the name of the song or just a line in it.) He has a Dylan-like attitude in his delivery and tells very interesting stories.
 
Dan Bern does indeed kick ass.

the name of the I am the messiah song is "Jerusalem" and DB definitely kicks ass. when I'm covering stuff, I play that, a song called "Marilyn" and a rare cut called "He Can't Hear You."

I'm gonna post the lyrics just to see if you guys are hearing the genius that I am .... In fact, I don't believe this is available anywhere commercially so if you want to hear it, PM me and I'll email you the mp3. It's just a gut wrenching lyric well performed on the version I have.


He Can't Hear You
Words and Music by Dan Bern

He served his land in the Spanish American war
He worked 'til he was seventy in a grocery store
Now he's got synthetic tubes pumping every pore
He's being kept alive but he really doesn't know what for.

He tried to turn in bed
But the sores were still red
So he screamed as they bled
Til the nurse on duty said
"I'll give him a shot to ease the pain in his head"

Heavens for those who believe
He thought looking at the leaves
Then he said, "but what of these?"
As she stuck needles up his sleeve
You'll feel much better, you'll sleep well and you'll breathe

His medical history takes up one whole file drawer
They say that's what it's for
But he used to use a drawer
to hold his fishing things.

There's tape on his nose
To keep his intravenous feeder in place
He once played second base
Across the grass he would race
Oh they say he had wings

He can't remember the face in the store
He can't remember the blue dress she wore
He remembers their walks by the shore
He can't do nothing himself anymore…

Don't worry about what you say,
He can't hear you

Out of a summer day
It fell into fall
He fell into her arms
She was armed with sweet perfume
And a blue dress, blue sky
Sun dripping everything

He whispered her name
Jackie,
Jackie so soft
Like the skin on her neck
That he loved to touch and caress
With his fingers and his japanese ring

Don't worry about what you say,
He can't hear you.
 
whoa! I really dragged that one out of the vaults! sheeaat! Seriously though, if I can spread the good word of Bern to any others, I'm more than happy to oblige.

stonepiano in chicago
 
John Prine has been one of my favorite songwriters since seeing him with Steve Goodman at the Lost Knight in Chicago some 32 years ago. Listening to him and Goodman weave their words to music reinforced my desire to write. Personally, almost all my favorite songwriters have that kind of conversational style of writing that Prine has. Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Dan Bern, Lyle Lovett, and some of the older writers like Willie Nelson, Kris Kristofferson and Bobby Bare all seem to have the knack of turning our every-day language into something akin to poetry. On a more formal poetic side, the lyrics of the late Townes Van Zandt continue to amaze me.
 
Peter D:
man, do you have great taste! I'm also huge into Earle, Goodman and Lovett. Always liked Willy but never got HUGE into him like the others.

Another artist you might find enjoyable is a british guy who sounds a little like Elvis Costello. His name is John Wesley Harding and his early stuff is quite reminiscent of these types of performers. You might like his newer stuff but his debut "It Happened One Night" is definitely for the discerning introspective music fan like yourself!

Especially good are his tunes "Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, Steve Goodman, David Blue and Me," "Save a Little Room for Me,"
and "Cupid and Psycho."

I hope you check him out!

stone
 
John Prine is THE songwriter I aspire to be. Actually, there's a few others but Prine is something special. The John Prine album with him sitting on a hay bale is probably my favorite.

"Far From Me"

(excerpt)

-Well, I started the engine
and gave it some gas,
And Cathy was closing her purse,
we hadn't gone far,
in my beat up old car,
and I was prepared for the worst,
"Will you still see me tomorrow?"
"No, I got too much to do"
Well, a question ain't really a question
if you know the answer too.--

He's a genius. His lyrics tell small stories that resonate profoundly with anyone who's lived any kind of life.

Great thread.

BTW- Check out the "John Prine- sessions from West 54th" DVD. It's a treasure.
I was lucky enough back on December 1st of '99 to see John Prine, Bruce Cockburn, Emmylou Harris, Steve Earl, Patty Griffith and Cathy Griffin, at a benefit concert at Stanford. They all sat together with their guitars and played along with eachother's songs for two hours. I was in the front row. Yep, nice.

Jon
 
I was busking at The Cannery in San Fran in '72, and in the middle of one of Prine's songs, a guy walked up to me and said: "I really like the way you do my brother's songs."
I said, "yeah, right, you're John Prine's brother!"
He laughed and took out his wallet. Illinois drivers license, credit cards, etc. They all said 'David Prine'. He was John's brother. We had a laugh, and he invited me to his house if I ever went through Chicago.
A few years later I went to see Prine with Goodman in Philly. Prine came out with a bottle of whiskey and proceeded to get roaring drunk as the show went on. Goodman was kindof pissed, but man, was Prine funny!
 
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