jealous guy

[heatmiser]

Hi folks,

Been away for a while...I moved and have a new recording space that I'm still getting used to, particularly with regard to how the bass translates. This is the third track I've done in the new place, but I've struggled more with it than the first two, largely due to the vocals.

This is a john lennon song that I don't remember hearing as a kid when it came out, but a friend recently referenced it, and I had a listen and really liked the melody, lyrics and some aspects of the arrangement, so I tried my hand at a cover and got too far into it before I realized the vocals were way out of my range (which I should have guessed).

So, the vocals are probably kind of jarring, particularly if you're familiar with the original, and I worry that my lame shmastering introduced too much distortion, but I'm still very interested in any feedback you might have for me.

Original mix (removed):


Mix II - 08.14.16:


Mix III - 08.16.16 (edited vocal take - less limiting/comp on master):


Thank you in advance.

 

[Bubba po]

You have a great vocal tone and awesome low range. A couple of notes here and there are a tad pitchy; a little more practice would sort that out, I'm sure. The whole thing has a vintage-y tape saturated feel, particularly the drums. They're real, aren't they? Those are excellent Ringo Starr - style fills. The big reverb accentuates the vintage feel. The rest of the instrumentation sounds good.

Are you aware of Roxy Music's version? It was a big hit in the U.K.

 

[heatmiser]

You have a great vocal tone and awesome low range. A couple of notes here and there are a tad pitchy; a little more practice would sort that out, I'm sure. The whole thing has a vintage-y tape saturated feel, particularly the drums. They're real, aren't they? Those are excellent Ringo Starr - style fills. The big reverb accentuates the vintage feel. The rest of the instrumentation sounds good.

Are you aware of Roxy Music's version? It was a big hit in the U.K.

Thanks for the comments Bubba. I really appreciate you taking the time.

I haven't heard that version, although I remember seeing it on youtube when searching for the original. Maybe I'll check it out when I get home tonight...

Yeah, pitchy...I know...I thought I had avoided those issues with this take, but listening back, there's at least 2-3 pretty flat lines, plus some that are just awkward sounding. Some lines I think I delivered well though, so thanks for the encouragement.

I'm ashamed to admit that I sang this through many, many times on multiple occasions before getting to this point, but perhaps I could still do better? I'd like to.

Anyone have any tips for tracking techniques to help with pitch? Maybe I should post in the (gasp) vocal sub forum? I tried one ear cup off, both on, muted bass, full arrangement, low volume, high volume, belting it out, singing quietly...etc., etc. Sigh.

EDIT: Oh, and the drums are not real sadly. I did play around with limiting, comp, distortion and verb quite a bit to get them to sound that way though, so that's good that you liked it!

 

[DM60]

Listening on HPs, HD560's for Sennheiser reference.

I liked Brian Ferry's version as well, that was why I listened. That version is a great rendition of the tune. You might want to look at it as another approach or idea of vocals approach.

While the vocals might struggle, I thought they sounded good but probably requires another run at it to start out in the right octave range. I think they would work My only negative is the seemed the high mids were a little loud. Could be my ears, but the range from 2-5K I seem rather sensitive to, so take that with some skepticism.

Over all, it it sounded good and very polished. Very nice mix. Take a run at the vocals and get comfortable with the range and you have a damn fine cover.

 

[kcearl]

I only really know the Roxy music version, this is much different...I thought the instrument mix sounded great...pretty good balance to everything. the drums work well imo. I dont think its a song for your vocal style, but thats because I like your other stuff so much, seems an odd cover to choose.

 

[Robus]

Good playing and vocals. The bass sounds massive in my listening environment. Though I like big bottoms and I can't lie, it might be too much. That string pad in the background is a loud. It makes the arrangement sound congested. Overall the mix seems quite compressed and boosted. More dynamics might suit the song.

 

[Bubba po]

EDIT: Oh, and the drums are not real sadly. I did play around with limiting, comp, distortion and verb quite a bit to get them to sound that way though, so that's good that you liked it!

I'm quite surprised by this revelation. The organic feel of the fills sounded utterly human to me. Perhaps it's because you got the parts to sound like a real kit in a real space. The dynamics of those fills are spot on. Really excellent work.

 

[Nola]

I liked it.
Cool vibe. The mix sounds good. My girlfriend was in the room when I listened and hated it. Go figure!

 

[heatmiser]

Listening on HPs, HD560's for Sennheiser reference.

I liked Brian Ferry's version as well, that was why I listened. That version is a great rendition of the tune. You might want to look at it as another approach or idea of vocals approach.

While the vocals might struggle, I thought they sounded good but probably requires another run at it to start out in the right octave range. I think they would work My only negative is the seemed the high mids were a little loud. Could be my ears, but the range from 2-5K I seem rather sensitive to, so take that with some skepticism.

Over all, it it sounded good and very polished. Very nice mix. Take a run at the vocals and get comfortable with the range and you have a damn fine cover.

Thanks DM60. I think you may be right about the hi mids being a bit harsh. I think that occurred during the crappy, random mastering I did as the original mix was somewhat warm sounding actually.

I definitely can't sing this an octave higher. Not a chance! I have an unusually deep voice. I could probably sing it an octave lower, but I suspect that would only sound weirder. I did set up the mic this afternoon after reading the comments and gave it another whirl but the results were really disappointing.

No offense, but I tried listening to that roxy music cover of this song and I really, really did not like it. It just sounded like they exactly mimicked the original, but with cheaper, thinner sounding instruments and the singer copied lennon's phrasing almost exactly, but just added a lot more vibrato. I definitely want to sound as little like that as possible! lol

I only really know the Roxy music version, this is much different...I thought the instrument mix sounded great...pretty good balance to everything. the drums work well imo. I dont think its a song for your vocal style, but thats because I like your other stuff so much, seems an odd cover to choose.

Do you like the roxy music version? I just had a listen and was horrified. I couldn't even get past the first chorus. Anyway, thank you for listening. I think you're right. It was an odd choice. It just had personal significance to me, and I just thought I could do it, without really thinking about it realistically. I spent so, so long working on the instruments too, and was really happy with that, but it's kind of a shame.

When I first heard lennon's voice climb up on the line, "I didn't mean...to make you cryyy", and the music drops down underneath to the Bb unexpectedly, and the strings in the background...man, it just got to me. I wanted to replicate that sentiment. I fucked up. lol

Good playing and vocals. The bass sounds massive in my listening environment. Though I like big bottoms and I can't lie, it might be too much. That string pad in the background is a loud. It makes the arrangement sound congested. Overall the mix seems quite compressed and boosted. More dynamics might suit the song.

Thank you Robus. I think you're probably right (except about the vocals lol) on all fronts. I had no idea on the bass. I was back and forth raising and lowering it by several decibels right up until the end. This level is actually in between the extremes that I had it at during various iterations. Yes, the strings should probably come down a bit. I got excited about using them and got carried away, and yes, a slow ballad like this shouldn't be squashed to death. The final mix came in around -12db and it sounds pretty warm and clear, with plenty of dynamics. I just kept limiting it, compressing it and raising the master until it was all red without exceeding 0. I got hooked on how hyped and loud it started to sound, but I regret it now, especially after listening to the other offerings in here today. That's why I need this place though...to keep me somewhat honest. Thanks!

 

[heatmiser]

I'm quite surprised by this revelation. The organic feel of the fills sounded utterly human to me. Perhaps it's because you got the parts to sound like a real kit in a real space. The dynamics of those fills are spot on. Really excellent work.

Cool. I didn't like create the drums from scratch or program them or anything though. I have this small library of drum tracks on CD specifically made for Roland VS recorders. They recorded real drums on 8 separate tracks and chopped them up into small sections (including fills) and you just arrange them and mix to taste. A bit tedious, but still fairly simple and they really sound great imo. I mean, I did choose the fills and decide where to put them, so I take credit for that. lol

I liked it.
Cool vibe. The mix sounds good. My girlfriend was in the room when I listened and hated it. Go figure!

I suspect she would be in the majority! Thanks though. I'm glad you liked the vibe.

The more I think of it, the more I realize I just shouldn't try to sing certain songs. I'm sad because I had high hopes for this one, and in my mind I had no doubt I could pull it off, but perhaps this will teach me to be more careful about choosing material. I should probably stick to originals as there's no frame of reference for anyone.

 

[Nola]

I suspect she would be in the majority! Thanks though. I'm glad you liked the vibe.

Haha. It was more about the lyrics. She just kept commenting on how cheesy they were, and said, "let me guess, that's from the homerecording forum..." lol
I was like "It's John Lennon!". She wasn't a fan of the lyrics even knowing they were Lennon.

 

[heatmiser]

Haha. It was more about the lyrics. She just kept commenting on how cheesy they were, and said, "let me guess, that's from the homerecording forum..." lol
I was like "It's John Lennon!". She wasn't a fan of the lyrics even knowing they were Lennon.

Ah, well good for her! She should stick with those instincts. I generally have a strong aversion to cheese, but in this case it seems so sincere and it mirrored my own feelings as I first heard it, so I am a sucker in that sense.

 

[ibleedburgundy]

Excellent use of panning. Everything has a distinct space here.

I like the little shuffle you got feeling between the drums and instruments.

Maybe the vocals could be a little more up front at times - I suspect you are being more critical of them than is deserved and maybe it's reflected in the mix.

Overall I think this is a cool modern - ish recording of the song.

 

[Bulls Hit]

Great version heat. It is an unusual song to cover, but it's such a classic with a beautiful melody. I really liked your vocal treatment. The drum fills are very sgt peppers. On headphones I didn't notice any excessive bass so it's translating OK in that respect. It's always fun getting used to a new room. I guess you'll be cranking up your own kit again pretty soon...

 

[rayc]

The cello (?) playing most of the time sounds fine but may be creates more density over that side - have you given it a run up the middle with the bass.
The main strings have a touch of mellotron to them - where'd you get them?
I'm a fan of the original and my wife's a fan of the Ferry (in fact she loathes the Lennon one). I like the pain in Lennon's voice.

 

[DM60]

Thanks DM60. I think you may be right about the hi mids being a bit harsh. I think that occurred during the crappy, random mastering I did as the original mix was somewhat warm sounding actually.

I definitely can't sing this an octave higher. Not a chance! I have an unusually deep voice. I could probably sing it an octave lower, but I suspect that would only sound weirder. I did set up the mic this afternoon after reading the comments and gave it another whirl but the results were really disappointing.

No offense, but I tried listening to that roxy music cover of this song and I really, really did not like it. It just sounded like they exactly mimicked the original, but with cheaper, thinner sounding instruments and the singer copied lennon's phrasing almost exactly, but just added a lot more vibrato. I definitely want to sound as little like that as possible! lol

None taken for sure. Now if it were my cover, maybe then ... I still say your voice will work with the song, just have to get a good comfortable run at it.

 

[andrushkiwt]

yeah, bass and vocals are the only areas to cover, in my opinion. nice work, particularly on the drums.

 

[fat_fleet]

Child of Nature! Never my favorite Lennon song.. I think my first impression of the original was similar to that of Nola's gf.. something about the schmultzy rhymes and strings, plus I was like 12 and had zero life experience to relate to the sentiment.

Great job on the cover though. I personally love the low range on the vocals. Really works with the song's humility. I even like those mellotron-y sounds. Is that still the iPad synth patched into a tube amp? Sounds great.. way better than iPad->sim lol.

I think I like this more than the John Lennon version.

 

[heatmiser]

Excellent use of panning. Everything has a distinct space here.

I like the little shuffle you got feeling between the drums and instruments.

Maybe the vocals could be a little more up front at times - I suspect you are being more critical of them than is deserved and maybe it's reflected in the mix.

Overall I think this is a cool modern - ish recording of the song.

Yay! You liked the panning. Thank you. I do spend quite a bit of time thinking that stuff through and tweaking and was generally pleased with that aspect so I appreciate the acknowledgement there.

I'm not sure if I'm being too critical or not critical enough, but the vocals are just killing me on this one! lol

Thanks very much for your input.

Great version heat. It is an unusual song to cover, but it's such a classic with a beautiful melody. I really liked your vocal treatment. The drum fills are very sgt peppers. On headphones I didn't notice any excessive bass so it's translating OK in that respect. It's always fun getting used to a new room. I guess you'll be cranking up your own kit again pretty soon...

Thanks Bulls. I listened to your track earlier just through the lap top speaker and it sounded awesome! I'm going to listen through phones later and give it more thought...

Ah, sadly I don't have a kit anymore. That one I was using was on long term loan, and when I moved I returned it to its rightful owner. I hope to purchase at least a kick, snare and HHs someday (as that's basically all I ever played), but even used, quality percussion is too rich for my blood right now...I'll have to rely on software, drum machines and hand percussion for a while.

The cello (?) playing most of the time sounds fine but may be creates more density over that side - have you given it a run up the middle with the bass.
The main strings have a touch of mellotron to them - where'd you get them?
I'm a fan of the original and my wife's a fan of the Ferry (in fact she loathes the Lennon one). I like the pain in Lennon's voice.

Hey ray - yeah, I mean, that's the whole thing right there...the pain in his voice. It's really palpable.

To me, Ferry sounded like he was just going through the motions, but it sounds like that version was quite popular in its day.

All of the string sounds are the same "Hollywood Strings" from garage band. I played them on a keyboard on an iPad and ran the headphone out into my guitar amp and cranked the spring reverb. Mic'd with a 57 just like I would a guitar. I think it warms it up considerably vs. going DI. I also think it gives it more of that mellotron feel - which I personally love. There are 6 string tracks total at various times playing the same parts, but in 3 different octaves. All were doubled and panning equally apart, so it should be balanced. I'll investigate that...thank you!

 

[heatmiser]

None taken for sure. Now if it were my cover, maybe then ... I still say your voice will work with the song, just have to get a good comfortable run at it.

Thanks. I felt bad after writing that, as it's just a taste thing. I appreciate you trying to help! I guess I just wanted to be clear aesthetically that I'm heading in a completely different direction - for good or ill! lol I may still try singing it again, but I'm just so completely frustrated by it at this point.

yeah, bass and vocals are the only areas to cover, in my opinion. nice work, particularly on the drums.

Thanks man. I'm not sure if I'm in the ballpark with the bass or way off...I hear it both ways depending on a number of factors, and am a bit lost right now. Same with the vocals - torn between ditching the whole thing, and continuing to slug it out and sing it over and over again searching for some confidence that may not be there.

Child of Nature! Never my favorite Lennon song.. I think my first impression of the original was similar to that of Nola's gf.. something about the schmultzy rhymes and strings, plus I was like 12 and had zero life experience to relate to the sentiment.

Great job on the cover though. I personally love the low range on the vocals. Really works with the song's humility. I even like those mellotron-y sounds. Is that still the iPad synth patched into a tube amp? Sounds great.. way better than iPad->sim lol.

I think I like this more than the John Lennon version.

Thank you ff. Yeah, I'm sure if I'd heard this as a kid I would have hated it for the same reasons you state. Maybe I did - I just don't remember. Hearing it for what seemed like the first time ever a week or two ago though, it really struck a chord with me. At 46, I can look back and say I have been that guy. The melody and lyrics here perfectly reflect how that feels to me. That's something I wouldn't have cared about in the least when younger.

Yes, the strings are all coming from an iPad into a guitar amp and were meant to sound mellotron-ish, so glad I got that part more or less right. Thanks again.