isolated solo button not really isolated

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walters

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When i SOLO button 2 tracks that are the same source they
start to flanger or Chorus why is that i thought the SOLO buttons
were to ISOLATE the track


Do you think the "summing buss " or Summing Mixing in the console
or DAW is not discrete or isolated ?

How can i make them more ISOLATED so the 2 tracks don't Flanger
or Chorus
 
umm..correct me if im wrong but flanging and chorus are effects not something that happens to two tracks that are soloed. solo buttons isolate tracks but if two tracks are soloed they are not isolated from each other. they are both played
 
walters said:
When i SOLO button 2 tracks that are the same source they
start to flanger or Chorus why is that i thought the SOLO buttons
were to ISOLATE the track


Do you think the "summing buss " or Summing Mixing in the console
or DAW is not discrete or isolated ?

How can i make them more ISOLATED so the 2 tracks don't Flanger
or Chorus
Click to expand...

You can start by not making up a bunch of bullshit that's wasting space on the message boards.
 
walters said:
When i SOLO button 2 tracks that are the same source they
start to flanger or Chorus why is that i thought the SOLO buttons
were to ISOLATE the track
Do you think the "summing buss " or Summing Mixing in the console
or DAW is not discrete or isolated ?
How can i make them more ISOLATED so the 2 tracks don't Flanger
or Chorus
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the question here. If you have 2 tracks of the same source that were recorded with different microphones, you will likely experience some comb filtering when these tracks are played back together due to phasing/timing differences between the microphones and the source. This may sound like a chorus or flange type effect, but it is not. It is simply the additive/destructive properties of waves combining that are not entirely in phase. It has nothing to do with your mixer, unless you are adding these effects deliberately.

Given the indication that you want a creamy, smeared, layered, wall of sound, generation-lossy sound to your recordings, this comb-filtering may be a good thing for you. To minimize it, you will need to observe proper miking techniques during recording and may need to manually align your tracks after recording.
 
I mean if i have 2 copys of a guitar the same source on two tracks
and i Nudge one of the audio clips so they Chorus or phase or flanger
so one of the audio copys is Nudged or time slipped from the original
audio clip so you play it back and its flanger or phasing or chorusing

Now if i SOLO those 2 tracks it should be ISOLATED the 2 guitar tracks shouldn't be flanging or phasing because its SOLO buttons are on
and its ISOLATED buts its still flanging and chorusing

The Big problem i have is that to layer tracks i duplicate the orginal
3 times to seperate tracks now when played back its all in unison together
and its thick

If i try to Overlap the Layers it starts to flanger and phase or chorus
and i don't want that in the overlapping it should be Isolated overlapping
and discrete
how can i do this?
 
walters said:
I mean if i have 2 copys of a guitar the same source on two tracks
and i Nudge one of the audio clips so they Chorus or phase or flanger
so one of the audio copys is Nudged or time slipped from the original
audio clip so you play it back and its flanger or phasing or chorusing

Now if i SOLO those 2 tracks it should be ISOLATED the 2 guitar tracks shouldn't be flanging or phasing because its SOLO buttons are on
and its ISOLATED buts its still flanging and chorusing

The Big problem i have is that to layer tracks i duplicate the orginal
3 times to seperate tracks now when played back its all in unison together
and its thick

If i try to Overlap the Layers it starts to flanger and phase or chorus
and i don't want that in the overlapping it should be Isolated overlapping
and discrete
how can i do this?
Click to expand...

If you are playing back both tracks at once, then they are not soloed. Solo=one. A soloed track is one track playing back only. If you are getting problems with one track, then your mixer needs to be serviced. Moving the track (nudging, as you call it) will result in comb-filtering/phasing when the 2 tracks are played back. That's it. Period.

please read everything at this link and then come back if you have some sensible questions:
http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/directory.htm
 
you can solo more than just one track
just press solo and which track you want

But i still get that phasing flanger sound why its Isolated i thought
when soloing tracks
 
walters said:
you can solo more than just one track
just press solo and which track you want
Click to expand...

yes, you can. however, if you are playing more than one track simultaneously, it is, technically, no longer soloed. thus, the sound will be combined with other "solo" tracks. run along, now.
 
But i thought it would be isolated how do i make it isolated then?
 
walters said:
But i thought it would be isolated how do i make it isolated then?
Click to expand...

How do you think you could isolate a single track?
 
Scrubs, just quit. You could run this thing to 100 posts and he still won't understand that isolation means by itself/singular/only one/solo....

Stop pounding your head against the wall. You'll only leave a bruise and not solve a thing...
 
walters said:
why not is it because of the bussing ?
Click to expand...

All solo does is to mute every track other than the one you've soloed. If you solo two tracks, it mutes everything but those two.

To reduce this phasing effect, pan the two tracks off-center in opposite directions. If they are both panned to the center, soloing them won't isolate them from each other because all you're doing is playing the same two tracks mixed in the same way as before.

To separate the two tracks from each other, you have to separate the playback of the two tracks. You can do this either by panning them to different speakers or by significantly shifting them in time. The farther apart you pan them, the less you'll notice this effect.
 
you have to separate the playback of the two tracks. You can do this either by panning them to different speakers or by significantly shifting them in time


How do i separate the playback of the two tracks?


If i shifting them in time would make it worse more phasing and flanger right?
 
walters said:
you have to separate the playback of the two tracks. You can do this either by panning them to different speakers or by significantly shifting them in time


How do i separate the playback of the two tracks?
Click to expand...

Like I said, either 1. pan them differently (pan one to the left, one to the right) or 2. shift one in time a lot. Either of those changes will largely eliminate the phasing sound.

You might also hear some improvement by rolling off the high frequencies on one of the two tracks, since this is where the phasing will probably be most noticeable if you nudged the track only slightly. That said, it's probably better to just pan one hard to the left and one hard to the right.

walters said:
If i shifting them in time would make it worse more phasing and flanger right?
Click to expand...

There will always be some cancellation when you mix any two tracks, even if the signals are completely unrelated. However, it occurs in such small amounts that your ear won't perceive it as cancellation. You'll just hear it as the natural blending of two sounds.

What you hear as a phasing sound is noticeable because the signals are constantly just a little off from each other, and always in exactly the same way---every cycle is off by a fixed amount. That's why doubling tracks by recording two separate performances will always sound more believable than simply playing the same track twice or recording it with two mics. If you do two separate takes, you get subtle variations in wave shape and timing, so you don't get cancellation of the same parts of the signal in the same way in every cycle.

As for shifting it more, it will eliminate the problem, but you'll have to shift it a LOT more. You have to make it so that the natural variations in the sound don't always hit at the same point in every cycle. With every cycle that you shift the second track, the differences between the two tracks at any point in time will increase. At some point, it will no longer sound like phasing, and will instead sound more like a fast echo.
 
dgatwood said:
At some point, it will no longer sound like phasing, and will instead sound more like a fast echo.
Click to expand...
A good way of shifting the tracks (not phyically moving them) is to add a simple delay of 10-15 miliseconds to one of the tracks (not both), and it will sound a bit more natural, avoid the peaks hitting at the same time, and won't give you phasing issues. This is done by adding a plugin in software, or adding it to your buss on your mixer if you are doing it in hardware.
 
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