Is the Digi002 really all that?

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akpcep

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With the launch of the Mbox2, is the Digi002 worth the extra money?

Is there a noticeable difference in sound quality, or are the preamps just as good? The reason I ask is that I'm considering swapping my PC/Cubase setup with my Seasound Solo for a Mac/Protools one, and getting a Digidesign interface would be the first step.

Can anyone comment? Is it worth spending almost double for an 002 rack, or will the Mbox2 serve my home studio needs?

Lastly, it slightly bugs me that the Digidesign interfaces all have the inputs on the back, as my rack is under my desk. Is there an obvious and easy way of getting round having to crawl under the desk to plug things in?

Thanks!
 
Yes the 002R is worth the extra money, if you need the extra inputs. The sound quality/preamps are going to be pretty simular between the two. The Mbox2 is 2 channels simultaneous, up to 4 with SPDIF external preamp; while the 002R is 8 channels simulataneous (4 preamp, 4 line), up to 18 with external SPDIF and ADAT lightpipe preamps. The software is the same with both units though (although I think the 002R comes with some extra plugins).
As far as bring the inputs up front, an XLR patchbay for the preamp inputs and a 1/4 TRS patchbay for the line in/outs would do the job nicely.
 
Yeah- the 002 IS all that. I love mine- the 002 with control surface, BTW. The rack, which I've also used, sounds the same.

Don't get me wrong, M2 is probably a great little unit (I have an M1) but the 002 is quite a step up. i regularly need 8 or more inputs, so I didn't really have a choice with it anyway.

The 002 is more stable than the USB mbox, and allows lower latency- higher track counts at lower buffer settings. While it doesn't have the zero latency hardware monitoring that the mbox has, in low-latency monitoring mode its almost as good and you have MUCH more control over your monitor mix.

On the other hand, if you're OK with the max 4 inputs of the M2, Digi may have created the 003 by the time you need more inputs. (shrug).

The 002 CAN come with more plugs if your get the extra plugin pack that can come with it. Its plugin pack is more robust than the one available for the Mbox. If you don't get the extras I beleive the software is identical. I think- I haven't checked the details on this for a while because I'm not in the market for new hardware.

Take care,
Chris
 
Thanks guys, I guess it comes down to how many simultaneous inputs I really need - at the moment, the most I tend to use at once is two - either for stereo line inputs or a guitar and voice. That said, I don't have a lot of deskspace and while I realise the Mbox is only small, I can imagine it sliding about the place when it's got some heavy XLR cables running into it.

Oh and Chris - you're right about Peavey ;)
 
akpcep said:
at the moment, the most I tend to use at once is two - either for stereo line inputs or a guitar and voice. That said, I don't have a lot of deskspace and while I realise the Mbox is only small, I can imagine it sliding about the place when it's got some heavy XLR cables running into it.
Click to expand...

If that's the case, why not take advantage of retailers trying to clear out their inventory of Mbox1's. Guitar Center is selling the old Mbox for $300, $350 with the factory bundle. The software is the same either way. I had a Mbox once and although the rubber feet did a decent job of holding the unit in place, it did tend to slip as more stuff got plugged in the back. I ended up using velcro the stick the thing to my desk.
 
I did think about that, but then I would have to buy a separate MIDI interface, which would bump the cost up to about that of the Mbox2, and I'd have another box on my desk...
 
Akpcep - I was really close to going down the Digi 002 route recently, but I've shied away from it again and bought a Motu interface from a HR.com member in the states. My friends who've used the Mbox 1 reckoned the USB format wasn't brilliant and that Firewire would be the way to go if you wanted to start getting serious. There is also the problem with Pro Tools LE that once you lay down three of four takes of a muti-mic'd drumkit, you've used up your entire track count.

In short, the 002R will spank the new Mbox, but you have to think very carefully about why you want to do the PT/Digidesign thing. There is a file format which allows you to transport projects between Cubase, Sonar, PT and so on, but PTLE doesn't support it. Staying with one of the other major mainstream packages might still be an option for you.

Just my thoughts, anyway,

Nik :)
 
Actually Noisedude, the track count only pertains to active voices, so as long as you aren't playing all the takes back at once you're fine (in fact Protools uses playlists in tracks as a neat and handy way to organize different takes, so you wouldn't even need a separate track for each take). Digitranslator will allow protools to output the files to other programs, but it's an add-on, which I agree is kinda sucky. The thing is Protools TDM has become the defacto standard for pro studios, so it may be more of a concern of "will my home sessions transfer to pro studios?" than "will my home sessions transfer to other programs," depends on the user and application obviously.
Also, MIDI interfaces are dirt cheap, you can get 1x1 interfaces like this for under $50 bucks.
 
Hiya Reshp1 - I wasn't thinking about taking from Pro Tools LE to other programs ... I was pointing out that Cubase and others will allow you to take your projects into a professional studio using Pro Tools, so that need not be a reason to get the LE version.

I'm not a Pro Tools user myself, yet, but I will be using it a LOT over the next twelve months so I guess I will know then whether it's really so much better than all the others!! :)
 
noisedude said:
Hiya Reshp1 - I wasn't thinking about taking from Pro Tools LE to other programs ... I was pointing out that Cubase and others will allow you to take your projects into a professional studio using Pro Tools, so that need not be a reason to get the LE version.

I'm not a Pro Tools user myself, yet, but I will be using it a LOT over the next twelve months so I guess I will know then whether it's really so much better than all the others!! :)
Click to expand...

Ahh.. I see, sorry misread your post. Actually that would be the thing I was talking about, digitranslator. But most pro studio's that have TDM systems have the add-on so yeah, it's not as big of a concern. Still, it will only import the files to tracks with the right timestamp and certain other information, you won't actually be able to open a whole session at a pro studio and have it come up exactly how you saved it.
 
Why not get a Tascam FW1884 for $1200 new it gives you the same setup at the Digi 002 just with out protools. You also want be locked to not being able to upgrade.
 
reshp1 said:
Ahh.. I see, sorry misread your post. Actually that would be the thing I was talking about, digitranslator. But most pro studio's that have TDM systems have the add-on so yeah, it's not as big of a concern. Still, it will only import the files to tracks with the right timestamp and certain other information, you won't actually be able to open a whole session at a pro studio and have it come up exactly how you saved it.
Click to expand...

audio files will be time stamped with OMF/AAF exports.
however, other things including plugin assignment/parameters, routing, group information...are not translated with OMF/AAF in most programs.
 
deepwater said:
Why not get a Tascam FW1884 for $1200 new it gives you the same setup at the Digi 002 just with out protools. You also want be locked to not being able to upgrade.
Click to expand...

why do people keep saying that?
You can upgrade hardware and software with Digidesign just like any other company. In fact, Digi is one of the few companies I know that allow you to trade in older hardware for newer hardware.
 
Bennychico - methinks there is a very large jump between the Digi 002 and the full-blown rig ... the home user will not have an opportunity to upgrade unless they win the lottery!

There is no two ways about it - going down the PT/Digi will leave you locked in to a very limited set of hardware and softare ... however, any pro studio owner will tell you that this is one of the platform's major strengths!

I would still question whether it represents a great investment for the home user.
 
noisedude said:
Bennychico - methinks there is a very large jump between the Digi 002 and the full-blown rig ... the home user will not have an opportunity to upgrade unless they win the lottery!
Click to expand...

true, but what home user needs more than 18 simultaneous inputs? If you are tracking 19+ a lot, then that probably means you own your own studio and do this full time and should invest in the TDM versions anyway. LE was created for people who didn't need the full blown expensive version...your singer/songwriter or rapper.

All I'm saying is if you buy the 002 or the Mbox, and later find you need something with more inputs...Digi lets you trade it in and pay the difference for the upgrade.

Digi locks you into their hardware, true. But even with the inclusion with M-Audio gear, people are still bitching that Digi is locking you in with their stuff. Even though 16 of the M-Audio units are supported on top of the Mbox, Mbox2, 002 and 001 if you still own that. So there are 20 hardware units out there that work with Pro Tools LE. I'm sure SOMEONE can find one that fits their needs.
 
I'm not criticising the locking in of users to a limited set of hardware and plugins etc, as I said, this is a potential strength the same as it is for Macs. Just I'm not 100% convinced that it makes for an economical purchase for the home user.

OTOH, this time last week, I was THIS close to putting down a deposit on an 002R ... so I guess I just can't make my mind up!! :)
 
lol
this is just one of the reasons that you have to REALLY know what you want before you buy it. So many people have "horror" stories of being locked into Digi stuff because they just jumped into it without thinking...because they thought the name would mean it's the best thing out there. The first program I learned was N-Track and not to soon after I had to learn Pro Tools and loved it in comparison. It's just the software that fits me well. I know it well, it does what I want and I use it all the time....so I don't complain about being locked in with it.

Just base your purchase off of how many inputs you need and which software you feel most comfortable with. No need to buy something you'll regret later one...just do your research, I'm sure you know that ;)
 
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Aye, I've been avoiding Pro Tools all this time in case it turns out I really like it and I have to shell out to start using it!!! :):):):)

Nik
 
FWIW, I jumped to Pro Tools (Digi 002 w/ faders) headfirst from Cubase VST 32.

Haven't had any trouble or regrets since. Sure, I sometimes think "I'd like more tracks" or "dammit, I can't do surround!"....

But I've never needed more than 32 tracks and I couldn't afford a surround monitoring system even if I wanted one. Being aware of the limitations is the worst part- I don't actually bump into those limitations all that often.

With PT 7, we get 32 busses, too and that erases the one limit that I did frequently run into. Suits me well and- I've managed to pay off the whole PT rig by now, as well, with the income I've made with it.

Take care,
Chris
 
Personally, the whole trade in thing does not seem to applicable to me if you are upgrading to HD. For me, the 600 or so dollars I could save by trading in doesn't make a bit of difference when looking at the $10,000 minimum that it takes to get a small HD 1 setup (thats not including the computer). I know for certain that I could not live with 32 track limitations. I really like over tracking and cutting things in the mixdown stage. I do like Pro Tools as a software platform, but even with M-Audio as an option, I would still feel locked in. For one, I do everything I can to avoid M-Audio, and you still have to buy the software if you do the M Audio route. I have to admit though, the fact that they do lock you into certain hardware may be a drawback for me, but it is also an advantage for some. That is one of the ways they can guarantee more reliability, by taking away options. As far as transfering a session to a larger studio, I wouldn't care about anything except the time alignment of tracks. If I were bringing a project to another studio for another engineer to work on, I would want them to start from scratch so they can do their thing (which is why I would be bringing it to them to begin with). I would never give another engineer material to work on and tell them "here you go, I did half the mix, you finish".

In the end however, Pro Tools is still an industry standard. Not necessarily because it is the best, but more because it is the most familiar. 5 years ago TDM systems were in a very select group of capable software solutions. Now there are many options and that gap has narrowed down to a very slim margin. HD processing is really about the only advantage that digidesign still has as far as capability goes, but LE does not include any of the stuff that makes an HD rig so powerful. I have however been considering adding an HD1 sytem in my studio just because I am sick of the first question from clients always being do you have Pro Tools? At least then I could say yes and when they get here use Cubase SX anyways.

Personally, knowing the limitations is probably the most important factor. If you think there is any chance you may have a problem with the limitations, I would not consider Pro Tools as an option. I do not think that Digidesign is going to change the LE software limitations or offer LE compatible hardware with any more I/O than the Digi 002 and 002R. If they did they could easily undercut their own (and far more profitable) HD sales. The reason I don't reccomend Pro Tools LE to anyone who may need more than it offers is because when they reach that point they will be forced to learn a whole new software. If you see that you may want more, just pick a solution right away that can grow with your needs. If someone asks me for advice and is willing to invest in HD, thats a whole new story. I would reccomend HD to that person. I do think it is overpriced, but so are Neumann U87's. That does not make them any less of a mic though, and they offer a name and reputation that will more than likely help to bring in enough business to offset its slanted price.

As far as the actual question at hand, there is no appreciable sound difference between an Mbox and a 002. If it is true that Digi has changed the preamp in the Mbox2, than there is a really good chance that the Mbox2 will actually sound better than a Digi 002x. Digidesign is known for their software. The digidesign LE compatible hardware is certainly not known for its converters and preamps.
 
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