is expensive gear that important?

[thomaswomas]

sorry if i'm touching on a subject that's been discussed before but what the hell!

i've been recording my band for the last three years and my equipment and skills have slowly improved over that time. my equipment list now includes an alesis fw multimix 16, cubase se, studiomaster series 5 mixing console, a modest collection of dynamic and condenser mics and a few bits and bobs. still on the budget end of the spectrum but i feel i'm getting the best out of this gear and the demo's are sounding close to professional qaulity.

we're currently rehearsing in an old social club and the room is huge with plenty of space to set up a full live recording enviroment. i've also built a few absorbers and gobos to control the sound.

we're now planning to record an ep to release at the end of the year and we're trying to decide the best plan. our manager is slightly obsessed with the idea that we can't release anything unless we've recorded it in a professional studio even though we don't have any real budget for recording. we spent a fortune recording potential singles in a huge studio last year and the results were awafull. we then recorded a demo of a new song in our rehearsal room and ended up releasing this as our first single.

i, along with the rest of the band, feel we get the best 'vibe' recordings ourselves and think that it's more about the performance than the sonic quality. alot of debut albums i hear sound poorly recorded but the energy and the songs stand out.

am i wrong in thinking that the general buying public don't care much for super quality sounding recordings and buy an album cos they love the songs. or is the (for want of a better word) recognition of good sound quality more a subcontious but important thing.

if anyone's got any views on this topic i'd love to hear them

thanks

ps. i'd appreciate it if anyone can tell me how to post some songs so u can get an idea of the quality of recordings i'm producing

 

[travelin travis]

have you thought about finding a good engineer to work with you in your space? surely he could bring anything to the table that you might be lacking equipment wise and could probably make the most of what you do have.

 

[danny.guitar]

If you can manage "close to studio quality" and the songs are good and the performance is solid then I don't see any reason why you can't record and release your own album.

If you wanna post some of your songs you can put them here:
http://www.lightningmp3.com

Or sign up with a place like http://www.SoundClick.com and upload your songs there.

There's also www.garageband.com.

 

[Dani Pace]

While better gear tends to produce better results, the recording environment is also a crucial part of the equation. Pro (style) studios sometimes seem so sterile, especially after being used to playing, practicing and recording in a larger or more familiar place. I second the idea of getting someone to bring their gear and recording your band in the room where you are used to playing. Invite them to come to a couple of your sessions before the actual recording. Use these times to make plans and determine what extra gear they will need to bring. Being in familiar surroundings can help the band members to relax and perform their best.

 

[mikgag]

We have some of the most inexpensive gear known to man, and can get great recordings with it. We tried going the "pro" route once, and it sounded sterile and "digital". We are also strong believers in "vibe" and "energy" which is why we've concentrated on setting up our Recording gear specificaly for "live" recording, because with tracking, we find it just loses something....

 

[mrface2112]

the musicians, the person behind the board and the room have a LOT more impact on the end result than the gear being used.

expensive mics, preamps and compressors and such are simply tools. some tools are just plain better than others and simply help you get the job done faster and with better results. but they won't run themselves. you can give a novice every tool in a mechanic's shop, but can you expect them to change the brakes and properly balance the tires?

cheers,
wade

 

[fraserhutch]

It's ALWAYS the performance first. If you can't get a good vibe going in a "pro" studio, you're probably better off not recording in one. However, my guess is that you went into the pro studio under-prepared.

That said, a good performance recorded poorly will always be trumped by a good performance recorded well. But, recorded well does not necessarily imply the most expensive gear, it implies the right gear for the job in the right hands.

Another thing is, depending on the type of music, the room may not be as critical to the equation.

 

[ez_willis]

Not at all. Some of the best recordings ever were done in a living room with behringer gear. Led Zeppelin, Steely Dan, Stones, Beatles, you name it. I can't think of one truly "classic" album that wasn't recorded with stuff that was purchased at Radio Shack.

If you have crap gear and you can't get pro-quality results, you're doing something wrong.

 

[chessrock]

I'd have to hear a sample of the recordings in order to make a call on this one.

Preferably, if I could hear a sample of your stuff, and perhaps some of the stuff you did at this "professional studio" you speak of.

For all we know, you might think your sound is the shit, but it might actually suck. Or perhaps it's absolutely bitchin' ... making your question redundant. I highly doubt this to be the case, but you never know.

Again, without something to listen to, all any of us can do is guess. And most of us are pretty bad guessers. Generally, I tend to strongly advise against the DIY route ... if this truly is an actual "release." If it's just something for shits / giggles or to get gigs, then knock yourself out.

My suspicion is that you had one bad experience with some place that was passing itself off as a studio. And now you're generalizing, thinking every studio will be like that. Maybe they had good facilities but worthless engineers. It happens. What you need to do is work with an engineer -- not a studio. And should that engineer prefer to do it in a studio, then cool. If he doesn't mind working in your space, then all the better. If he wants to record in his grandma's shed ... who cares, so long as he/she is reputable and does good work.
.

 

[xstatic]

It sounds to me like the "professional studio" that was chosen in this scenario was not very reputable or professional. "Vibe" and all that can certainly be had in a profesisonal environment with excellent equipment. If your results were not good in the studio that you chose, it is certainly possible that you either did things in a manner that the studio professionals did not want (basically tried to run the session yourself rather than letting the pro do what the pro does best) or that you just plain old selected a bad studio. The gear is certainly not what makes the biggest difference, but doing it yourself without proper equipment, knowledge, experience etc... will ALWAYS come out subpar compared to doing things right .

 

[thomaswomas]

thanks for the replies. much appreciated. so you can get an idea,i've uploaded some tracks which are as follows:

1) leaves - the pro studio session version
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8095

2) leaves - demo version
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8096

3) the gates - single release we recorded ourselves and had it mixed professionally
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8097

4) remember the empire - recent demo recording http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8094

5) sirens - recent demo recording
http://www.lightningmp3.com/live/file.php?fid=8098

the studio session i've referred to in my first post was done in a top professional residential studio which has produced some big albums so this wasn't really the cause of the nightmare session. it was basically a combination of bad preparation and the wrong people involved.

the producer, who we had never met but was recommended by a music industry consultant was supposed to come and do a bit of pre production the week leading up to the session. he canceled this and arrived at the studio at 5pm during the first day, having had a quick listen to the songs on the way down. he had no intention of listening to what the band wanted the ep to sound like, basically banned us from the control room unless we were recording our parts and just didn't get what the band were about.

the end result you can judge for yourselves.

my point is, i agree that the best studio with the best engineer with the best producer with the best band etc etc will get the best results, but does budget gear stop people from liking and buying songs. isn't this why the beatles (i'm in no way saying we're as good as the beatles!) and other great bands from the 60's and 70's are still being played next to robbie williams and coldplay. the gear has greatly improved but the songs haven't.

anyway, i'd love any feedback about the mixes and any suggestions you may have

thanks

 

[chessrock]

it was basically a combination of bad preparation and the wrong people involved.

I think you're kind of answering your own question. The people are what make the music and the recordings rather than the gear, etc. etc.

But that drum has kind of been beat to death around here lately, so it's not like it's some new revelation. I mean, nice gear isn't going to make up for bad personality combinations or a faulty approach. Which is kind of like "duh" ... but I suppose it bears repeating -- especially around a board like this one where people think some magic gear is going to posess all the answers to their problems.

.

 

[NL5]

i'm not sure what kind of feedback you are looking for, but I listened to the two versions of "leaves" - or atleast to to first 20 seconds or so. Even after adjusting for the different levels, the pro version is WAY better - easy to tell right from the word go.

 

[TexRoadkill]

Based on The Gates I would say record the stuff yourselves and have it mixed/mastered at a proper studio. It definately sounds better then the other tracks.

 

[cusebassman]

The studio version has a more pop feel to it, but I do agree it is rather sterile sounding - especially in the fact that the vocals are mixed considerably higher than the instrumentation, and to be honest, I don't like the guitar tone as much.

While the vocals on your version could've been a little more upfront in the mix, I prefer that one's overall sound. I'd say record a few more tracks yourselves, and if you like the raw sound, have them professionally mixed. At that point you are only down the cost of the mixing (if it even gets that far), and you can stick with the equipment you've got - its obviously working well enough to produce something I liked... and while the song itself was the larger part of that, I normally don't like the quality of the stuff people on this bbs produce

 

[chessrock]

I like your versions better.

Aside from the fact that you limited the fuck out of it to the point that it's just barely listenable.

I say go for it ... but let the tunes breathe a bit, dude. Jesus Christ, just a little bit of dynamics wouldn't kill ya, would it?

.

 

[noisedude]

I agree ... the kick drum is much better in the studio version of Leaves but apart from that yours is better. The vocal is a way better take, the guitars are either mixed better or you just did a better arrangement, and the overall feel carries more energy. There's absolutely nothing in the quality of your version that is going to cause a problem for this style of music. You might never get that uber-polished Maroon 5 sound, but until you are trying to make stadium-sized songs you sound like you're going to be ok.

If you get better vocals without other people around, or you get guitars layered well given plenty of time and no financial penalty, then carry on doing what you're doing.

I agree on the limiting though, you made it good and loud but I'm picking up one or two crackles and pops that sound like over-enthusiastic compression.

Maybe invest in one or two decent preamps/channel strips, and then take all the time you want to get it right would be my suggestion.

Maybe leave a couple of dB for a mastering engineer to work with, so that you can send an album's-worth of songs off to get put together.

YMMV!!

Nik

 

[bodaddy]

I have to say I think think you are very close but the pro version sounds more pro. It just needs a good mastering studio to finish it off. The vocals are the smoothest out of all the tracks. It sounds like you were pushing the volume envelope just a little too much on the rest and losing the smoothness when you did. Also there were some de-essing problems in one of the home tracks. Again, you are very close. I would say cut back on the highs just a hair on the vocals and don't push the volume until it becomes muddy and it will pass for a saleable recording. Take some pointers from the pro recording then find a decent mastering studio or if you can get a Waves tutorial that would help. Don't sweat, your close. BTW when your done I want an album, I'm digging the tracks.

edit-The above post wasn't there when I started so I agree with him.

 

[ecktronic]

Am i wrong in thinking that the general buying public don't care much for super quality sounding recordings and buy an album cos they love the songs. or is the (for want of a better word) recognition of good sound quality more a subcontious but important thing.

Convert to MP3 at atleast 160kbps and upload to www.lightningmp3.com and dont foget to post the link.

Yeah great production can be subconcious but also concious. Joe public will be able to tell the difference in production quality of say the yea yeah yeahs to something like Deftones. But there are elements of subconcious in every walk of life.

Eck

 

[ecktronic]

If you have crap gear and you can't get pro-quality results, you're doing something wrong.

I don't agree with that. Top class pre-amps will have a smoother and more clear high and mid range, as with with top quality AD/DA converters. Most pro releases have this very defined smooth mid range and sparkling smooth high end.

Remember not all commercial releases are classed as pro releases (well in my opinion anyway)

Pro = cream of the crop.
Eck